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  #1  
Old 01-12-2011, 10:41 AM
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Longroute Longroute is offline
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Lightbulb Mods and Rocks: a proposal

First let me say that I share what Peter (Pwall) said in the previous thread “I quit…”

“Hi Andrew,
It saddens me to see you defending yourself and the rest of the moderating team in a Forum like this. What I see as an onerous and thankless task”

I do think that we all owe a great deal of respect and gratitude to the moderators who are working for us, without this respect and appreciation for their work it has no sense to stay in this community, even if they – like all human beings – may make mistakes.

It seems to me that the whole problem lies in THE WAY a deletion is brought about, as things are now a person is believed guilty before the photo has been thoroughly examined by a commission of mods, and he/she has the often difficult task of proving his/her innocence after the photo has been deleted.
Why not reverse the attitude and procedure considering the person innocent in the first instance and deleting the photo ONLY when the commission has examined the case?

My proposal is: when a mod thinks a photo is violating the TOS should send a private message to the member informing him or her about this violation and asking to the person to write a note to justify the posting of that photo. If the member does not give a reasonable explanation, then the commission may delete the photo.
This IMO, should avoid the distasteful shock of seeing one’s own photo deleted without any warning and therefore the rage that often goes with it.

Donato

(P.S.
the title: the people my age will remember what was going on in England in the sixties between Mods and Rocks...
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2011, 12:00 PM
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Juntas Juntas is offline
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Default Not sure

Ciao Donato.
Not sure about that.
After a week and after 20, 30 or more people have made comments on that photo, you'll have those people also complaining because the mods made them waste their time doing it for 'nothing'

Have a nice day
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  #3  
Old 01-12-2011, 12:57 PM
macondo macondo is offline
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Donato, thanks for your comments.
I haven't had time to think about this proposal sufficiently to give you a full reply. But I can tell you that many, many photos (but not all) ARE discussed by the moderators before they are removed or other actions taken - including emails to the member or comments/critiques which highlight the problem, especially for very new members. No doubt the abruptness of a removed photo can anger some members, but as Juntas points out, letting a few days go by may cause even more anger in some members. It's worth discussing, anyway.
Andrew
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Old 01-12-2011, 04:45 PM
Keitht Keitht is offline
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As Andrew has said, it is common for mods to discuss image removal before it happens. These discussions happen virtually every day in fact. Where a mod believes that an image is clearly in breach of the TOS it is removed immediately. The alternative is to leave the image visible and other members then put the time and effort into submitting critiques which would be wasted if the image is then deemed to break the TOS. All that achieves is an even greater number of unhappy member - not what any of us want

I certainly acknowledge that the system isn't perfect, but it is the only one we have at present.
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Old 01-12-2011, 04:59 PM
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Longroute Longroute is offline
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OK, you are right!

Thanks Paulo, Andrew and Keith for your answers.
I had not thought about that!

Donato
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:57 PM
Keitht Keitht is offline
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If there was a way to 'lock' a photo to prevent critiques being posted but keeping the image visible it might be a way forward. An accompanying notice to the effect that the mods are concerned that the image may fall outside the TOS would also be required. Such a system might also have the benefit of allowing a wider audience see the kind of image which is considered borderline.

Even if such a facility could be implemented I feel there are other aspects of the site which could be considered better use of the tech teams time first.
Please note - I'm posting the thought as a member of TE not with my mod(erator) hat on.
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Old 01-28-2011, 09:33 PM
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ellelloo ellelloo is offline
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Post An alternative for deleting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keitht View Post
The alternative is to leave the image visible and other members then put the time and effort into submitting critiques which would be wasted if the image is then deemed to break the TOS. All that achieves is an even greater number of unhappy member - not what any of us want
Hello Keith,

What if the alternative would be to leave the image visible, but lock it so that nobody could submit a critique to it. The lock would be removed, if the photo would be deemed to not break the TOS after communicating with the uploader and negotiating among moderators. If it would be deemed to break the TOS, only then the photo would be deleted.

This would require one dedicated database field for a photo table, which by default would have a value 0 (=open) and which would be changed to 1, if a locking is issued. Additionally the Photo page would require such a change that the button "Critique Photo" would not work if the photo is locked.

This would lead to somewhat less unhappy members, even that being not able to critique would of course also cause some frustration. The positive thing in this would be that other members could see with their own eyes the photo, which has a "suspiciously TOS breaking" status. In this way other members would be able to have their own opinion instead of just reading the words of the moderator against the words of the uploader. For example I have not been able to see most of those photos, which recently have been deleted for whatever reason by the moderators.

This is of course not a perfect solution either, but it would increase a bit the openness and reduce speculations, I think.

A refinement of this idea is to change the text of a locked "Critique Photo" button so, that members know what is going on and thus prevent a bunch of technical complaints "I cannot critique a photo".

Best regards,
Lasse

Last edited by macondo; 01-28-2011 at 09:55 PM.
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  #8  
Old 01-30-2011, 09:33 PM
romanaa romanaa is offline
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Default thanks for useful point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keitht View Post
If there was a way to 'lock' a photo to prevent critiques being posted but keeping the image visible it might be a way forward. An accompanying notice to the effect that the mods are concerned that the image may fall outside the TOS would also be required. Such a system might also have the benefit of allowing a wider audience see the kind of image which is considered borderline.

Even if such a facility could be implemented I feel there are other aspects of the site which could be considered better use of the tech teams time first.
Please note - I'm posting the thought as a member of TE not with my mod(erator) hat on.
Hello everybody involved,

I really appreciate this idea, I do not understand the technical things needed to make such a change, yet I suggest that
the so called borderline pictures might be even moved from the main gallery to a special topic, temporary (such pictures could be deleted after some time - for example after a month?) or permanent, whatever.

I think that even if the picture would be locked for critiques and still accessible to see at the same time wording simply what point of TOS it is breaking, it could help a lot to the overall atmosphere of the site by making the decisions being made transparent.

I do believe that most members try to follow the TOS as well as the moderators. In my opinion, such a feature would simply lift the curtain that makes the members feel mistreated by moderators and moderators mistrusted by members. Which problem, in my view, has been the main reason for raised emotions on both sides recently.

Thank you, Keith, for trying to put off the mod's hat... and raising a helpful point . Although you see many more things needed to be changed first, the atmosphere is as important as the technical things for many of us.
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  #9  
Old 01-30-2011, 10:12 PM
macondo macondo is offline
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Lasse, in case you are wondering why it says your post was last edited by me, you had not closed the quote off properly, so I inserted [/QUOTE] for you. At least I think that's what I did!

Lots of technical aspects are being raised here; who knows if they could be achieved?
Another thing that occurs to me is that the whole point of moderation and the existence of TOS is to keep unsuitable or inappropriate photos out of the public gallery. TE was designed to achieve a purpose in relation to a wider audience than just the membership. So, to add to the technical difficulties, I wonder if the 'locked' photos awaiting a final decision should be visible to signed-in members only.

Also, I appreciate that some members believe such a mechanism would improve the atmosphere and alleviate the tension; but I think that it could also have the opposite effect. We don't really know how it would go. It might 'lift the curtain' as Romana put it, but some members might not like the curtain being lifted on their locked photos. Others may find they feel a new scorn for certain members whose photos are seen to break the TOS. Moderators might find themselves being subjected to criticism or attack which makes their deliberations very difficult.

On the other hand, coming across photos in the gallery that are locked pending a final decision might be a good way of constantly reminding members of the TOS. Very often one just glances quickly at photos of flowers or photos with weird 3-D frames, ignoring them and not even thinking that the TOS have been broken.

I think a lot more thinking has to be done about a proposal like this; I can see advantages and disadvantages.

Like Keith, I'm just giving my private views and not those of a moderator.

Andrew
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  #10  
Old 01-31-2011, 08:19 AM
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Longroute Longroute is offline
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Default Already there

To Romana and Mods,

I think this feature or solution has already been implemented in TE,

see:
Here

(I hope I'm not revealing a secret! )

If my interpretation is right that means that after all the mods are listening to our requests and are trying to do something... this goes to their credit.

It would be interesting to know what comes out of it.

Donato

Last edited by Longroute; 01-31-2011 at 08:41 AM.
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