Forums


Go Back   The TrekEarth Forums >

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 03-03-2004, 12:31 PM
joseelias joseelias is offline
Guest
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 871
Default Re: Average

To Padam:

"I believe this would be more interesting to have a system that gives more value to critiques than to photos themselves.(...)This will encourage people not only to write a larger number of critiques (for those that are here to collect points!), but also to increase the quality of them."

To me this is a good idea. But there are several problems here.
-First, when someone writes a good critique but it's not positive about the photo and thus receive a not-useful just because it does not praise the photo. Many have experienced this. So people would not write "bad critiques" just not to get a "not-useful".
-Second, it's very, very time consuming. Can you imagine what is to read and rate the thousands of critiques? Currently I don't even rate the critiques I receive because I don't have time (and like me, many).
-Third, it's a completly different system from what is currently used and so it would be incompatible. I guess this could mess with everything done until the moment.

"The 'useful/neutral/not useful' rating is IMO an excellent idea,(...)"
As I said several times the "not-useful" does not help unless you know which was marked like this. But if you know you may start conflicts. So I have serious doubts of it's usefulness (aside from giving the stars).
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-03-2004, 12:55 PM
joseelias joseelias is offline
Guest
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 871
Default Re: Hi Jose,

To Bob:

Well, I many times remember peoples position, especially those who desagree with me... But I like that because contradicting me makes me think harder! And I guess I also have some fair play, although sometimes I bit too strong defending my positions... ;-)

"All that will happen is that those people who relish high point scores will work among themselves for high critique totals."

Yes I agree, but the main question is that the critique quality could increase and that is the main and central question.

For someone which wants points, he would be happy to count another critique in this rating but for those which write, the pressure to give points (and subsequently write "nice" things) would reduce. The critique would count as one being positive or "negative". My proposal is more centered in those who write than those who receive the critique/points.

Today, if someone don't want to hurt feelings gives allways 2 points (the vast majority), or does not critique at all just not to give the 0 or 1 point smile. This way that pressure would end and I believe many more honest critiques would be written.

"a bad measurement system can often cause more problems than they attempt to cure."

Again you're right. But this is not a revolution in the measurement system, just an adjustment and mainly a way to give more content the what's written. As "all" give 2 points in the critiques the difference was that the ratings would be devided by 2... But the quality of the critiques could go up a bit.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-03-2004, 01:07 PM
joseelias joseelias is offline
Guest
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 871
Default Re: Average

To Adam:

"I believe BobTrips suggested displaying number of critiques received instead of points a while back. I'd like to try that out."

Being the creator of this discussion I must agree... :o)
I still feel the smileys could be maintained just to indicate the tendency of the critique. Probably just two. One meaning "Good", and other meaning "Needs Improvements". Maybe there's no need for the yellow one... This one could be understood in what was written...

These smileys could only be counted in the photo page as a simple indicator of the opinions tendency to help the author.

"comment/critique option"

I'm not being much active lately so I didn't realize the real impact of this feature, but I feel it won't chage much the things as they are.... Sorry...

"Ultimately I feel having a groups feature will allow members with different perceptions to get more use out of the site."

This is something I'm eager (is this how it spell?...) to see!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-03-2004, 01:08 PM
padam padam is offline
TE Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 28
Default Re: Average

Hi Jose,

thank you for your answer. Actually I do not fully agree with you on several points.

"So people would not write "bad critiques" just not to get a "not-useful"."

This is the main concern. I believe on the contrary that 'bad' critiques will receive more or less the same number of points as a 'good' one. Maybe the person who made the picture will give zero points for a 'bad' critique, but all others members could give points to the critique with a much greater impact.

"it's very, very time consuming"

I agree this is the main problem.

"it's a completly different system from what is currently used and so it would be incompatible"

No. Simply because the current system proposes 3 choices both for the photos or the critiques: "0,1,2" points and "useful/neutral/not useful". It should be easy to make a system that translates "0,1,2" in "bad/neutral/good" and "useful/neutral/not useful" in "2,1,0".

By the way, the current system still satisfies some members here on TE. The proposal is simply to give more impact to the critiques: both systems can still live in harmony ;-)))

pe
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-03-2004, 01:27 PM
joseelias joseelias is offline
Guest
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 871
Default Re: Average

To Padam:

"Maybe the person who made the picture will give zero points for a 'bad' critique, but all others members could give points to the critique with a much greater impact."

Yes, I know that, but because it's very time consuming it's hard to believe people would actually read and rate the others critiques. Personaly it's something I would not be able to do because of lack of time... Just look how many critiques people write and how many of them are marked as useful.

Another problem would be for younger members. Many don't critique because they do not feel secure enough to critique others (especially more experienced members). If we start a "rating" system lke this even more would be affraid to say something and would be discoureged.

I understand your idea and like it. I just think it's hard to implement.

"By the way, the current system still satisfies some members here on TE."

Let's not forget also that the point/rating system is also highly motivating for younger members. It was to me and I guess for almost everyone. So it's a way to grab the membres into TE... Like a trap! :-)))

"both systems can still live in harmony"

They allready do. We have our stares and squares... The question is that the points are more visible because they are atached to photos, and people come here to see photos, not members.
I even changed my intro photo to see if people would look more at me but no sucess... I guess I'm too ugly! eheheh.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-03-2004, 07:08 PM
BobTrips BobTrips is offline
TE Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 817
Default Why not 'Separate and Unequal, but Something for All'?

Make two boxes under the picture.

--------------------------------
One box for Critiques, a box for the exclusive entering of thoughtful discussion of the image, of the artistic merit, for the technological skill.

Don't keep any type of "scores" that encourage a distortion of the Critiques. Give the members a way to display their agreement or disagreement with the Critique. A disagreement should probably require an explanatory statement
-------------------------


-------------------------
Another box for Comments and Smileys. People who want to look at photos and offer each other support and encouragement can use this system. Minimize or eliminate the need to post any text. 'Click and Score' should be fine.
------------------------


I see the present conflict as being a tugging between two loosely formed, non-exclusive groups. Some want to use TE as a learning site, want thoughtful criticism of their posted work and ideas of how to improve it. Others want a place to share.

With a small change the two groups can peacefully co-exist. Those who don't wish to use the point system can continue to turn it off. Those who don't like critical statements don't have to read them. (Could even turn them off?) People who wish could use both systems, even on the same photo.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-03-2004, 07:13 PM
Cat Cat is offline
TE Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 79
Default Re: Why not 'Separate and Unequal, but Something for All'?

I sure hope all of this gets settled down soon. It sure is a drag and takes the fun out of the whole thing. I hope we can all co-exist peacefully! Peace and take lots of photos!! ;)
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-03-2004, 07:32 PM
BobTrips BobTrips is offline
TE Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 817
Default Groups...

"Ultimately I feel having a groups feature will allow members with different perceptions to get more use out of the site."

I'm not too comfortable with the idea of groups, at least as I see them working.

I think it better to create a highly flexible site, one with lots and lots of options. (You're well down that path now.) Then let each individual member customize the site to fit their particular needs.

I've done a version of that using the options now available. I turned off the points because I found myself paying too much attention to the number and letting my attention be diverted from the message. I've used the 'Favorite Photographer' function to allow me to select a group of members who tend to give thoughtful (both positive and negative) Critiques.

I'd like to further refine my screen.

First give it a new name, not 'Favorites' but something more like 'Members of Interest', Kindred Souls', ....

Then create a way to pick people who have a similar desire to participate in Critiquing as opposed to Sharing.

Add a function to individual member's profile page on which they could indicate their desires regarding Critiques/Comments. Put it on a 1-5 scale. I could start with limiting myself to '1's or '5's and if enough images weren't appearing on the screen then I could adjust toward the center.

Over time other 'characteristics might be added. And one could add anyone else for any reason whatsoever. No rigid groups, but something for everyone.

And people who like the site just as it is could simply leave it that way. ;o)
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-04-2004, 11:06 AM
adam adam is offline
TE Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,658
Default Re: Why not 'Separate and Unequal, but Something for All'?

"I sure hope all of this gets settled down soon."

This will never happen unfortunately. I am constantly tweaking and adding features to the site based on user feedback and my own ideas.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-04-2004, 11:13 AM
adam adam is offline
TE Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,658
Default Re: Groups...

"Add a function to individual member's profile page on which they could indicate their desires regarding Critiques/Comments."

This would be interesting to do as well. But I don't think groups have to necessarily be rigid. It would be possible to leave and join multiple groups anytime. I'm going to try it out and see how it goes.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:11 AM.



Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.
explore TREKEARTH