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-   -   Image removal and review - the process (https://www.trekearth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=845048)

Keitht 12-30-2010 08:42 PM

Image removal and review - the process
 
I thought it might be helpful to members to provide an outline of what happens when an image is seen in the Gallery which one of the mods thinks breaks the Terms of Service (TOS).

If the mod is pretty certain the TOS have been broken then the image will be immediately deactivated and an e-mail sent to the member. In many instances the mod will have concerns but not be certain and then will post a link to the image in the Moderators Area of the forum and ask for other opinions. Depending on the outcome of the discussion the image may or may not be removed. Again, if it is removed an e-mail is sent to the member.

All members have the right to request a review of the image removal and to provide reasons they believe the image should be reinstated. All such review requests are discussed by the mods. It must be accepted that this can take some time, possibly even a number of days, as the mods are all volunteers and only have limited time to visit the site.

Once a final decision has been made, the member will be notified of the decision and, generally no further discussion will be entered into on the subject.

It should be noted that the only way to have an image removal considered is to send in a Review Request as detailed in the e-mail. Complaining in the General Forum, or elsewhere, cannot have any effect as we (the mods) only have access to the original image and notes if a Review Request is received.

I hope this helps shed a little light on what some seem to consider the workings of 'The Dark Side'. :)

SnapRJW 01-24-2011 01:31 PM

Image Removal
 
Hiello Keith - I had an image removed 24 hours ago and have not yet received an email informing why. Is this an automatic process?

Regards Rosemary

Keitht 01-24-2011 03:26 PM

When an image is removed an e-mail is automatically generated giving the reason for removal. If you haven't received the notification there are a number of possible reasons, the most likely being an over-enthusiastic spam filter on your e-mail system so check for anything being held either within your own e-mail or on the server of your provider. Another possibility is a change of e-mail address after registering with TE. If contact details aren't up to date it will obviously cause problems.

SnapRJW 01-24-2011 06:30 PM

Please resend
 
Hi Keith - No change of contact details and absolutely no problem with spam filter or service provider. Can you resend the mail please? Thanks Rosemary

Keitht 01-24-2011 08:54 PM

I don't know if it's possible to re-send the e-mail. I'll ask.

SnapRJW 01-29-2011 05:44 AM

WRT Removal of Image
 
Hi Keith - Any news on re-send the email with rasons for my image removal? Take care
Rosemary

macondo 01-29-2011 06:12 AM

Your deleted photo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SnapRJW (Post 1165832)
Hi Keith - Any news on re-send the email with rasons for my image removal? Take care
Rosemary

Hi Rosemary
I've had a look through the recently deleted photos and found yours. I'll send you a private email explaining the reason.
Regards,
Andrew

Glint 01-29-2011 08:31 AM

Image removal process
 
Thankyou for explaining the image removal process. This seems very fair to me and after due process has been observed I think members should take the decision on the chin (accept it).I have had a couple of photos removed in the past and although I felt irritated (that's a natural reaction I would say), accepted the reasoning behind the decisions.I could have gone on responding to their removal with yeh but, yeh but, yeh but -but I have more constructive ways of spending my time on site. Someone has to make decisions on this site and that's the mods. Let's get on with taking photos and honing our critiquing and workshop skills.
I think this site is best served by showing a generosity of spirit to each other and the moderators.
Bev

paololg 01-29-2011 11:38 AM

Explanations
 
ENGLISH
Only one time I have received an explanation for a my deleted photo. All of my photos deleted in the last years have been accompanied by a mail (automatic?) what say that I had broken the rules giving a generic explanation (automatic also that?). Every time (except once) that I have explained my reasons I have not had ever answered. My irritation has been great, not only for the cancelled photo, but above all for the way. Fortunately, lately I have not had cancelled photo anymore, perhaps because I post only postcards to be sure not to be deleted (is a bit simplistic for a great site of photos like TE).
I keep on seeing in the home page of TE photo of flowers and animals (also macro) like characteristic photo. Mine are always been cancelled, even if the notes didn't entirely concern only the subject. The explanation of the cancellation has been that I had to publish it in TN or TL.
However, I appreciate the explanations on the forum of Keitht and I consider it usefull. Thanks!
Paolo

ITALIAN
Solo una volta io ho ricevuto una spiegazione per una foto cancellata. Tutte le mie foto cancellate negli anni scorsi sono state solamente accompagnate da una mail (automatica?) che diceva che io avevo rotto le regole dando una spiegazione generica (automatica anche quella?). Tutte le volte (eccetto una volta) che io ho spiegato le mie ragioni io non ho mai avuto risposta. La mia irritazione è stata grande, non solo per la fotografia cancellata, ma soprattutto per il modo. Fortunatamente, ultimamente io non ho più avuto foto cancellate, forse perchè io posto solo cartoline per essere sicuro di non essere cancellato (è un pò riduttivo per un grande sito di foto come TE).
Io continuo a vedere nella home page di TE foto di fiori e animali (anche macro) come foto caratteristiche. Le mie sono sempre state cancellate, anche se le note non riguardavano unicamente il soggetto. La spiegazione della cancellazione è stata che io dovevo pubblicarla in TN o TL.
Comunque io apprezzo l'interveto sul forum di Keitht e lo ritengo utile. Grazie!
Paolo

Keitht 01-29-2011 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paololg (Post 1165882)
ENGLISH


I keep on seeing in the home page of TE photo of flowers and animals (also macro) like characteristic photo.

Many of the image displayed on the Home Page were posted on TE before the various changes to the TOS over the years. Also, as has been explained many times, the mods can't view every image posted so there will always be those that slip through the net.

macondo 01-29-2011 12:40 PM

The moderators are just as concerned as anyone else about the appearance on the home page of flowers, pets etc. It's an automated process which we have no control over, and should be changed.

Keitht 01-29-2011 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macondo (Post 1165892)
The moderators are just as concerned as anyone else about the appearance on the home page of flowers, pets etc. It's an automated process which we have no control over, and should be changed.

Agree absolutely. Little can be done about images which were posted before changes in the rules, but hopefully something can be done to stop them appearing on the Home Page. Is it surprising that we still get flowers etc posted when more often than not they are the first image type that prospective new members see?

amaryllis 04-10-2011 09:19 AM

au sujet photo supprimée
 
re bonjour,

je pense avoir compris que si ma photo a été supprimé c'est à cause de ma note trop succincte
Il ne me semble pas avoir vu cela auparavant
Pouvez vous me donner des explications auxquelles bien entendu je m'y plierai si tel est le réglement
Je ne crois pas y avoir manqué depuis mon arrivée sur TE
merci à vous
Juliette








Quote:

Originally Posted by Keitht (Post 1162113)
I thought it might be helpful to members to provide an outline of what happens when an image is seen in the Gallery which one of the mods thinks breaks the Terms of Service (TOS).

If the mod is pretty certain the TOS have been broken then the image will be immediately deactivated and an e-mail sent to the member. In many instances the mod will have concerns but not be certain and then will post a link to the image in the Moderators Area of the forum and ask for other opinions. Depending on the outcome of the discussion the image may or may not be removed. Again, if it is removed an e-mail is sent to the member.

All members have the right to request a review of the image removal and to provide reasons they believe the image should be reinstated. All such review requests are discussed by the mods. It must be accepted that this can take some time, possibly even a number of days, as the mods are all volunteers and only have limited time to visit the site.

Once a final decision has been made, the member will be notified of the decision and, generally no further discussion will be entered into on the subject.

It should be noted that the only way to have an image removal considered is to send in a Review Request as detailed in the e-mail. Complaining in the General Forum, or elsewhere, cannot have any effect as we (the mods) only have access to the original image and notes if a Review Request is received.

I hope this helps shed a little light on what some seem to consider the workings of 'The Dark Side'. :)


dta 12-31-2011 04:42 PM

Rules
 
Hello ,

In the past , it was a tradition to post "wishes" pictures at the end of the year . Without strong rules about the notes .
Have the rules really changed ? Or are the mderators more severe ?
If you want that all the members leave the boat , this is the best way to succeed in it ...

Nevertheless , Happy New Year to every body .

dta 12-31-2011 04:51 PM

I complete
 
Re ,
I just want to complete my previous post .
When we see a picture of illuminations in a big city , for instance , no need a long note to explain what it is . But this kind of pictures learns us about the world .
Sorry for my approximative english .
I don't really understand the reasons of this debate this year .

Regards

paololg 12-31-2011 05:17 PM

Actual mood
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dta (Post 1200198)
Hello ,

In the past , it was a tradition to post "wishes" pictures at the end of the year . Without strong rules about the notes .
Have the rules really changed ? Or are the mderators more severe ?
If you want that all the members leave the boat , this is the best way to succeed in it ...

Nevertheless , Happy New Year to every body .

Unfortunately, this is the mood and the feeling of many members...
Happy New Year to you too.
Paolo

rrdaniels 01-06-2012 01:12 PM

Keith, I've found one of my images doesn't appear as well as I would like it to. How can I replace it with a re-edited version?
Bob

rrdaniels 01-06-2012 02:08 PM

After a little digging I've found it. No need to reply.
Bob

Keitht 01-06-2012 03:46 PM

Glad you found the way Bob. It took me quite a lot of looking too - and I've used the site a lot!:o

daredevil 02-10-2012 09:37 AM

Deleted photo
 
I have recently added a photo.. and the next morning its deleted:(.
Can anybody answer me why my pic is deleted from my gallary?

macondo 02-10-2012 10:02 AM

Reply to daredevil - what happened to your photo.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by daredevil (Post 1204108)
I have recently added a photo.. and the next morning its deleted:(.
Can anybody answer me why my pic is deleted from my gallary?

Sameer, your photo was removed by the Moderators. I have sent you an email to explain the reason.

mjw364 06-25-2012 07:29 PM

I joined the club!
 
Well I had my first image removed yesterday! I feel like I'm one of the gang now! I received an email as described above and I sent a review request as per above. As yet nothing...

But - previously I have posted an infra red image of Queen Victoria on here...to do so I didnt use the automatic infra red filter in CS4 but followed an exercise on how to D.I.Y in a photography magazine - quite a few steps involved and so to my mind a well and truly post processed image...

Now the reason given for my image removal was for "excessive post processing" and it was an infra red image... this time all I did was adjust levels, desaturate and add infra red filter effect in CS4 - 3 step process... not so much processing to my mind... I even explained how I had done it in my note. The image was still of a place and was the third of a series of images based around a canal shot where I had given some detail about the place in keeping with TE generally.

My question is who decides what "excessive processing" is? Surely its subjective if no details of how you post processed it are provided? In fact one of my earlier images "Arley Skies" has some clearly heavily processed colours and sky that makes it obvious that a significant amount of post processing has taken place... but nothing said about that and I'm sure we could all select several hundred heavily processed images on TE if not more...

So my question is - who defines that particular term "excessive processing"? Is it based on the number of processing steps involved or is it because someone says "It looks heavily processed" in which case you would have to take a few thousand images off TE right now!

Moreover, is an infra red effect more likely to be viewed pejoratively by moderators because they do look so obviously processed? If so is TE biased towards processed colour photographs in a subtle way? I hope not there are some great infra red images around. I kinda thought the one I had removed was one of them since it got rave reviews on another site!

Ok - over to you guys... the can of worms is open... I kicked the hornets nest... I am provoking debate... I lit the blue touch paper...;)

Keitht 06-25-2012 10:10 PM

I won't attempt to answer most of the questions posed in your post yet - that will need more time to consider :) The question about infra-red is an easy one to answer - it is specifically against the TOS so therefore isn't a subjective decision.

mjw364 06-25-2012 11:30 PM

so
 
So why have I had one infra red allowed and why have I seen what appear to be infra red images on here...

So can you show me exactly where it says it is specifically against ur policy and is this an admission of bias against infra red.... other forms of post processed creative expression are allowed....

e.g.

http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/photo1370312.htm

Could almost be infra red! ;)

macondo 06-26-2012 05:55 AM

Hello Michael,
a belated welcome to TE!

Here is the relevant section of the Terms of Service, which you can find at
http://www.trekearth.com/terms.php

Photographs:

1. Only photographs are permitted. Images may not be digitally manipulated in an image editing program ie, Photoshop except for the following reasons:
i. Copyright notices and (straight-edged, plain) frames
NB: Copyright/Watermark information must be discrete and may contain your name, but no graphics are allowed except for the copyright symbol produced by the keyboard (Alt+0169)
Frames must be plain and straight edged (simple drop shadow is allowed)
Cannot contain gradients, textures, blurring or beveling, but may contain the photo's title and/or the member's name. Advertising of commercial websites is not permitted.
Those posts not adhering to the these guidelines will be removed at the discretion of the moderators.
ii. Cropping, resizing and sharpening
iii. Touching up (dust, slight imperfections)
iv. Levels, Curves, Color adjustment, Hue, Saturation etc. for minor image enhancements.
v. Multiple exposures to get proper exposure values
vi. Stitching for panoramic photos
vii. Color conversion to Black and White, Sepia, Duotone etc.
viii. Perspective correction for parallax or lens distortion.
ix. Infrared photos are not allowed.


Many members have responded to one of their photos being removed by identifying others with the same failings which have not been removed, either their own or others'. First, that does not constitute an argument against your photo's removal, but does hint at Moderators' inconsistency. Second, there is no way the Moderators can identify every offending photo, and some get through, producing the apparent inconsistency. Indeed, sometimes we find, retrospectively, that a major part of a member's gallery breaches the Terms of Service; somehow that member's photos slipped through the net and we are only made aware of it by its being reported by another member.

In your own gallery, as you say, there is an acknowleged infrared conversion. To me it does not seem as extreme, although I never saw it when it was posted and wasn't required to make that decision. There are also several photos with blurred framing - not straight edged - which is also against the TOS. That is not the kind of thing that can be seen in the thumbnail view, but would probably bring removal if seen full size - see the TOS section above regarding frames.

The photo you have referred to and linked to is possibly 'borderline over-processed' but surely intended to be a kind of sepia, which the member has acknowledged to be 'too red' - he's stated he'll publish a less red one the next day, but it is yet to appear. Whatever the case, this one would usually be considered borderline and come up for discussion amongst the Moderators if it were seen in the gallery.

We don't usually remove infringing photos after a few weeks has gone by, unless there is an extreme case of photo theft, advertising, or something offensive. That's why they are still there waiting for someone to point them out when querying the Moderators' decision!

I hope this has clarified the issue a bit.
Andrew

mjw364 06-29-2012 05:24 PM

Hi
 
Hi Andrew - thank you for providing this information... I just wanted clarification so that I don't make the same mistake again... and I think you have now provided that along with an acknowledgement of the sometime inconsistent application of the policy which can lead to confusion - I would not have in fact posted an infra red image had I not previously uploaded one that was not questioned. I also didn't know about the framing issue. So this has helped.

I recognise your difficulty in monitoring all images given the sheer volume of images that are posted daily - it would be a 24- 7 job for someone! What I appreciate most about this aspect of your response in recognising the limits of what you guys can actually do is your honesty about it. So thank you for that.

With regards the highlighting of someone else's image as a defensive response to having one of their own removed; I see your point but my intention was more to provoke a debate on the forum about what the term post processing actually means and whether it should be minimised in keeping with a more purist approach to photography or whether we should accept, to a certain extent, post processing using software since it appears to be "the norm" all over the planet! We are bombarded daily with post processed images in many areas of our lives and the question is what is it that makes a "good" photograph anymore given the manipulations involved. It's an ongoing debate and I rather hoped to spark that debate amongst TE members and the moderators! I see there have been over 7500 views of this thread -I kinda hoped someone would comment in the interests of healthy debate!

I think perhaps given that one of the general aims of the TE is to educate and inform... and given that workshops are provided by members using post processing software... if a certain degree of post processing is deemed allowable - actually providing the details of the post processing process (in addition to camera, lens, DOF, exp. tripod/ND used etc.) might also prove beneficial to some less experienced members such as myself. This is just me thinking out loud and I'm a "new guy" but ultimately the community decides!

So - any thoughts?

:)

Keitht 06-29-2012 10:06 PM

Hi Michael,

Post processing is probably the most contentious area of all for members and mods alike. The original ethos of the site was that images should look as 'natural' as possible and the tight constraints on PP were set when the site was created. That was in the days of film cameras where all images needed to be scanned and all but the most basic of post processing software was prohibitively expensive to most people.
Some form of PP is necessary for most images created with digital cameras and that is acknowledged by the mods. What we still strive for is the 'natural' look in the end product.
Subtle use of HDR, for example, is permitted as long as it is used for the purpose of enhancing shadow and highlight detail. More extreme use of HDR is not accepted here.
You may be aware of the sister sites, TrekLens & TrekNature, which were created specifically as a home for images which do not fit the aims of TrekEarth. TrekLens in particular has a much looser set of rules and even the most extreme photo manipulation is accepted there.

macondo 06-29-2012 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjw364 (Post 1215912)
I think perhaps given that one of the general aims of the TE is to educate and inform... and given that workshops are provided by members using post processing software... if a certain degree of post processing is deemed allowable - actually providing the details of the post processing process (in addition to camera, lens, DOF, exp. tripod/ND used etc.) might also prove beneficial to some less experienced members such as myself.

Some members do actually provide a brief statement in their notes about the 'tweaks' they have given to their photos, and, in conjunction with the Exif information, that can be very helpful to other photographers. Other members, of course, choose to conceal the Exif information, and often even the camera used, and write the most cursory of notes which tell one nothing about the scene, let alone the difficulties of taking the photo or steps taken to make it presentable. A judiciously adjusted workshop photo, uploaded by a member to suggest improvements to another member's shot, can also be very helpful if the 'tweaks' are explained carefully. Remember, of course, that downloading a member's image, working on it it in Photoshop, and uploading it again, will result in a noticeable loss of image quality. But that doesn't matter if the object is to show how dynamic range, saturation and colour can be improved.

mjw364 06-30-2012 03:09 PM

Hi
 
Hi

Yes - Andrew I see the value of the workshops... I have received a couple and they have obviously made me think and reflect and that is the point.

What I am beginning to grasp here is in keeping with what you are saying Keith... the original ethos is what is in fact important here in as much as the danger for less experienced photographers (and I think I am guilty of this) is that sometimes you can forget that its the taking of the shot that is more important than the PP. I think I am beginniing to realise that, in some ways and some times, I don't take the care I ought to beyond basic composition because it's easy to say to yourself "it doesn't matter because PP can sort that out" - I have even read in respected photo mags people being advised not to bother with ND grads, white balance, EVs, or polarisers etc because the effect can be created in PP. I guess that can make some a little lazy and a bit reliant on PP as a corrective to a very average initial image - an easy mistake when you are starting out...

PP - love it or hate it it is a useful tool but its how its used and shouldn't be considered a replacement for the processes leading up to the actual shot in the first place... that's where the understanding and real skill lies...

:)

Keitht 07-01-2012 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjw364 (Post 1215965)

PP - love it or hate it it is a useful tool but its how its used and shouldn't be considered a replacement for the processes leading up to the actual shot in the first place... that's where the understanding and real skill lies...

:)

I agree absolutely with all that you say here. Surely it's better to get capture the image 'properly' in the first place than to have to waste time putting it right later. For many years I worked purely with slide film where you really had no option but to get it right in camera as there was nothing you could do to correct the image after the event. I think that helped provide a pretty solid grounding in thinking about composition, exposure etc.
There was also the not inconsiderable cost of film & processing to consider.
I believe many photographers who have been brought up on digital images could benefit from emulating the constraints of film by undertaking a simple exercise. - Go out for the day and restrict yourself to 100 shots - roughly the equivalent of 3 x 36 exposure films. Concentrate on composition, exposure, use of ND grad & polarising filters and try to produce images which require an absolute minimum of manipulation other than application of the Unsharp Mask after the event. No 'machine-gun' shooting where people seem to be working on the basis that if they take enough shots some must be worth keeping.

mjw364 07-01-2012 08:20 PM

Ha ha
 
Yes indeed! That would be an interesting exercise! Back in the day when film was the only choice it was far more expensive - the film, the cost of developing if you didn't do it yourself and if you did - the chemicals, the paper, the darkroom equipment and the sheer amount of time and effort involved. There were some dark room techniques and tricks that one could call post processing but the inital image had to be worth all the effort I guess! :)

uzico 07-20-2012 05:49 PM

I had a photo removed
 
I had a photo removed 24 hours ago and just got a mail that explain that it was because the photo was of a pet (dog). I did not know it's not allowed (it is written in T&C) so I respect that, being the rule.
But one wonders, there are photos of cats on TE, some people pets are pony horses, iguana etc - where does the line pass?

Keitht 07-20-2012 06:05 PM

Not an unreasonable question. Broadly, if a pet is the main subject of an image then that image is likely to be removed.

spigola 11-18-2012 12:47 PM

Hello!
I am practically a begginer on TE and just got "burned" - one of my photos sent to trash or wherever deleted pictures go. The problem with the picture seemed to be the fact that the subject posed for the picture which I willingly admitted in the note.
Which bothers me is the fact that most of the portraits are staged (and they are great portraits, don't get me wrong!) So why aren't the rules the same for everyone?

Keitht 11-18-2012 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spigola (Post 1225348)
Hello!
I am practically a begginer on TE and just got "burned" - one of my photos sent to trash or wherever deleted pictures go. The problem with the picture seemed to be the fact that the subject posed for the picture which I willingly admitted in the note.
Which bothers me is the fact that most of the portraits are staged (and they are great portraits, don't get me wrong!) So why aren't the rules the same for everyone?

What we (the mods) try to do is differentiate between the situation where a person is seen and simply asked to look to the camera, and one where an opportunity to stage a photo op is seen and then the image created. For example asking somebody in ethnic dress to stand for a photo is viewed differently to an image which has been set up and posed.
For example an image of somebody in 'ethnic dress' who has been asked to stand for a photo would be considered more favourably than one of somebody 'holding up' the Leaning Tower of Pisa. One can reasonably be considered to be 'Daily Life' when the other is obviously staged.
I hope that helps explain.

jlbrthnn 11-19-2012 05:23 PM

Removing photo
 
I replied courteously to the received message from the moderators on the withdrawal of this <a href="http://jlbrthnn.aminus3.com/image/2012-11-19.html">Photo originally published on TE, visible on Aminus3 </ a>.
I await for the response.

I published the message of TE courteously, and my response on this forum.
Censorship carried out in this forum is incomprehensible.
What are the forums, if you can not speak freely?

J'ai répondu courtoisement au message reçu de la part des modérateurs concernant le retrait de cette <a href="http://jlbrthnn.aminus3.com/image/2012-11-19.html">Photo initialement publiée sur TE, visible sur Aminus3</a>.
J'attends la réponse.

J'avais publié courtoisement le message de TE, et ma réponse, sur ce forum.
La censure effectuée dans ce forum est incompréhensible.
à qoi servent les forums, si on ne peut pas s'y exprimer librement?

jlbrthnn 11-19-2012 05:37 PM

Please an explanation
 
I just posted a courteous message that was immediately deleted

Please, give me an explanation.

Je viens de poster un message courtois, qui a été immédiatement été supprimé

Please, donnez moi une explication.

jlbrthnn 11-19-2012 05:40 PM

sorry
 
Sorry, je vois maintenant le message.

Porteplume 11-19-2012 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlbrthnn (Post 1225437)
I await for the response.

We certainly will need time to speak about your request and answer it.

Quote:

I published the message of TE courteously, and my response on this forum.
Censorship carried out in this forum is incomprehensible.
What are the forums, if you can not speak freely?
Forums are not here for publishing messages you have got from the Admins or Moderators.

Quote:

J'ai répondu courtoisement au message reçu de la part des modérateurs ...
J'attends la réponse.
Nous aurons besoin de temps pour discuter votre cas et vous répondre.

Quote:

J'avais publié courtoisement le message de TE, et ma réponse, sur ce forum.
La censure effectuée dans ce forum est incompréhensible.
à qoi servent les forums, si on ne peut pas s'y exprimer librement?
Les Forums ne doivent pas être utilisés pour y diffuser les messages envoyés par les Admins ou Modérateurs.

Un peu de patience, s'il vous plaît... :)

jlbrthnn 11-21-2012 04:57 PM

'Inactivated photos'
 
Message received from modeartors November 20th, 2012:

Dear joel,

Moderator TrekEarth [Moderator] has sent you a message titled, 'Inactivated photos'.

Please reply to their email at: [email protected]
etc etc...




After response to [email protected], message received November 21st, 2012:

Undelivered Mail returned to Sender

This is the mail system at host smtpfb2-g21.free.fr.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

The mail system

<[email protected]>: connect to www.trekearth.com[98.158.194.23]:25:
Connection timed out


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