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Should I give..or not ?


Should I give..or not ?
Photo Information
Copyright: Andrei Neamtu (andreineamtu) Gold Star Critiquer/Gold Note Writer [C: 62 W: 3 N: 120] (466)
Genre: People
Medium: Black & White
Date Taken: 2004-06-16
Categories: Daily Life
Camera: Sony Cybershot DSC-F828, Carl Zeiss T* 28-200, 58mm UV
Exposure: f/6.3, 1/250 seconds
Photo Version: Original Version, Workshop
Date Submitted: 2004-11-23 23:02
Viewed: 3591
Favorites: 1 [view]
Points: 36
[Note Guidelines] Photographer's Note
[AT THE END, READ THE DISCUSSION THREADS !!]

This is not 'that' common in Eastern Europe, but you can see it sometimes, mainly during the summer (now it's pretty cold, they won't 'come out' if I may say so, without judging). As you can see, they make quite some money, with this "i'm starving" figure. The fact is that the kid in the red shirt is just sleeping, lying there in the sun, and the other is a master in seeming like the hungriest, sickest person in the world. I personally don't like this 'theater'. I never give them money, as I know 1) they don't actually need it that much and 2) they'll give it away to the 'boss' - someone who collects the money at the end of the day.

They have this face as 'please, sir, give me some money to buy something to eat..' - and next you see them with a plastic bag inhalating what we call 'aurolac' - like a halucinogen substance (like auto gas), smoking, making jokes of short-skirt girls and such.

It's a very tricky game.. Some beggars really, I mean really need some money - something very small could save their life. But the rest, don't ! And I hate this, seeing on the street someone without a hand - who wasn't borned like this, but mean, very mean people cut his/her arm or leg just to make profit - this is no joke, they get kids, break their arm or something, and put them on the street - you give them money easier than you'd give to someone 'normal'.

So far, the authorities don't handle well this situation, and don't take them away from the street.

I find this very 'depressing' - it's not cheering you up if you see this on the street.

I took out some 70% of color saturation, and cropped it a bit.
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Discussions
ThreadThread Starter Messages Updated
To capthaddock: Confusedandreineamtu 1 05-22 12:51
CRITIQUE CONTINUED HEREsohrab 7 11-25 16:27
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Critiques [Translate]

It's a "bleak" picture in any way Andrei.
And it's a rapid spreading disease they suffer from :-S
I suppose the cure must come from within...

  • Great 
  • kaud Gold Star Critiquer/Gold Star Workshop Editor/Gold Note Writer [C: 393 W: 61 N: 436] (1828)
  • [2004-11-23 23:30]

You shoot a touchy scene with morose yet a very strong note regarding a habit - begging. I am happy that you at least came out of scenic beauties about East Europe and have guts to show some truth about. Thanks for sharing this shot which a lot of TE members will appreciate I believe.

The picture is good (maybe the framing could have been better) and gives a strong feeling. Your comment is only partly right: don't forget that the people pictured are often only victims.

your title tells everything! It's your personal choice whether to give money or not, because I agree with Mauro that they are sometimes helpless victims.
If someone is in a position to help then he should....
your note is quite appealing. Most of the time, people claim that this is a problem of Asia only. Whereever it is, no matter this type of scene is very depressing. Thanks for presenting this rare scene from Europe.

  •      
  • sohrab Gold Star Critiquer/Gold Star Workshop Editor/Gold Note Writer [C: 1362 W: 254 N: 1175] (7405)
  • [2004-11-24 18:47]
  • [8]

this is very common in india, and infact there is a sort of a mafia that controls these kids and other people begging. the beginning of your note pi@#es me off while the end which seems to be going on a more empathetic tone confuses me. i can't really make out your thoughts here. i mean you're sad about the situation , but also seems to blame these kids for it. you should realise that they didnt choose to be born in the world that they are living in. " they don't actually need it that much".. this i don't really agree with. they need it a lot, but yes the moey doesn't get used up to fulfil their needs. you're right about not giving them money, maybe you should think about taking them for a meal instead :)
before using such sharp words towards these kids, please realise that you're lucky not to be in their place. if you were born in "their" world, probably you'd also be lying somewhere inhaling some hallucinogen. most of the times we forget that we're lucky to be in a position to make such comments.
i know your intentions might not have been to sound this way , but believe me the beginning of your note seems to be a little too harsh on these kids. i'm saying this as someone who is himself indulged in social photography
CRITIQUE CONTINUED IN THE DISCUSSION

This is more than a simple photography. It is an introduction to a social life debate. On one hand, this poor boy is calling for pity, on the other hand, giving money will probably not help him very much as most of it will be used badly. What can we do in front of such situations. I agree that the comments of Andrei are hard but on another hand he is not totally wrong. Giving a meal is certainly a good compromise. The right thing to be done is at the level of the government: there should be laws to forbid such situations and place these people in social houses where children can get education and a decent living.

Very poignant composition and discussion. The contradictions are so plentifold, that one must just follow their instinct. The desaturation draws the viewer closer, perhaps to take a closer look. Well done.

Very common scene over eastern europe. Its a nice clear bright photo. I think you capture it well.

I can believe you.. incredible image.. I still believe it should be posted.. A terrible reality.

"on his way to the best photographer " with of course the smile, is not possible, I am the best :)))
I have been in U portfolio, and find a lot of very great works. You are doing well in catching situations, and the whole quality from "images" is great, like this one, even if it is missing a bit of contrasts for internet posting.
The note and the modeles in it are a very interesting moment of life. You choosing well your subject and U photography them as well.
A lot of Compliments
Jean Michel
(à demain)

Heated foto... the discussions are interesting. If faced with such situation I will ask myself the same question? to give or not? Most of the time I prefer to buy them something to eat or drink rather than giving them money, but as you said most of the time they refuse. But when you think about it, their 'boses' are not dumb and their may even exige that they have some 'minimum' begging. On the other hand how much can they eat and drink each day if every day of everyone of us wants to do the same?

Finally in a way or another we all actors in our life at certain point of time.

Bala

Good photo journalism in my opinion. a good documenting photograph with a detailed note on the social issues. This is the harsh reality of the world and you shouldnt have to defend yourself for documenting it.

Hello Andrei,
The story you tell us in your note sounds very familiar for me. We face a very similar situation in Colombia (my home country)... and, as we do have summer all year round scences like the one in your photo are pretty common.
It works exactly as you and Sohrab explain, adults or sometimes organized mafias use kids preferibly with handycaps or in depressing conditions to beg for money. I have read that those kids make more money during a "working day" than a person working for the minimun wage (Colombian minimun wage is US $8 a day).
Our government does not address this situation either; however, there are a good number of charity institutions with different programs to help these children, some of them offer tickets that you can buy and give to those kids, in turn the kids can exchange those tickets for a hot meal, a shower, clean clothes, and a bed for one night...
I know many times those kids won't accept anything but money, and many of them are already addicted to all kinds of hallucinogenic substances... I cannot blame them, I think that is the only way they have to escape their horrible reality.
But, initiatives like the ones of the charity institutions offer a good chance for regular people to do something to help those kids... Children represent the future of our countries, and images like your photo are certainly not a good forecast of that future.

  • Great 
  • red45 Gold Star Critiquer/Gold Note Writer [C: 77 W: 0 N: 160] (1613)
  • [2006-03-27 7:10]

Hi Andrei!
This kind of view was well known in Poland few years ago. Many Romanian Gypsies went to Poland to do theirs beggars' bussiness. Sad but true many Poles think that all people from Romania are similiar like these beggars - greedy, impudent, dirty. They needn't money for food - if you buy them something to eat, they throw it away in second. Fortunatelly our government close borders for people like these on your photo. And I went to Romania last year and I must say it is beautifull country full of very kind and friendly people.

Hi Andrei - the partial desaturation enhances the depressive mood, maybe the subjects are too centered in the frame, the situation is similar in Turkey as well, it's also inetersting when somebody writes a rude critique of your note and opinion, that offers no advice on how the photo can be improved, 4 members manage to find it "useful", because?? it is long??? it is meant to provoke an angry response???

Great photo,Andrei.
The controversy you've just stirred by this picture and your excellent note - that's what we need here, on TE, to happened much more often.
Hey! ANY picture that boils the blood - IS a good picture for me.
And this is masterpiece.
George

That was a highly disturbing note, I thought that sort of thing (deliberately maiming in order to increase the begging take) had died out in the 1800s.

The photo, itself, has a nice sense of distance. There is no attempt to draw the viewer in, we are just observers.

Excellent work but, in some ways, I wish I hadn't seen this one.

Hi Andrie,
This reminds me of an incident which happened while travelling from Chandigarh (my home town ) to Ludhinan(my place of work). At Morinda, there is a infamous railway crossing, where the local shopkeepers pool some money and hand over to the employee posted at the crossing.
Why?
So that he would close the crossing alomost 15 to 20 minutes earlier than the usaul time(15 times). The passengers would then buy the edibles and other items. This continued for two to three years. Complaints to railway authorities went unnoticed.
One day while reading a newspaper in the bus and waiting for the train to pass on, I heard cries and sob in the bus. A beautiful gypsy lady with all the limbs perfect, was begging,as somebody in her family had died and she pointed out to a dead body covered with white cloth lying on the ground barely 50 metres away in the woods. Every passenger gave her alms in plenty. Months later same scene continued but the beggar this time was an old man.
Later did we realize(some passengers went and checked) it was all fraud.
Now the picture you have posted:-
The girl and the boy are just pretending to be sick , but what happened in my country is beyond imagination.
Extreme poverty, presence of dons, laziness,easy money, lack of self respect are definitely the major reasons for this but its the lack of education, I believe that causes the crests and troughs in the pond.
This problem is not restricted to a single place, its universal, whether we accept it or reject it.
I really appreciate your willingness to become the best photographer of the world, and your determination in achieving your goal.
I shall be cheering you dear friend.
I know its painful and extreemly difficult to show the other side of the coin.
May Lord bless you with the vision and discrimination.
Regards,
Rajeev

If I am not mistaken infants and children are abducted and maimed by people who organise groups of beggers. The same children grow up knowing only one thing - begging to keep themselves alive. We cannot blame children for the situation they are in.

Two years back I was touring Gujarat, India. During a short stop at a temple several children gathered around us (Uncle, Aunt & me) and were begging for money. My aunt offered to take them home, give them clothes, food and even education in lieu that they be a companion to an aging grand mother. It was surprising to see that they disappeared in an instant.

The kind of fear drilled into these children would not allow them to even grab an opportunity that will change their lives forever.

Excellent capture and write up Andrei - I do believe you have added to world awareness :)

Hi Andrei,

it happens all the time, all the while, everywhere in the world, including in developing nations like the US and such. I tend to agree a bit with your notes. However, there are, at times, real needy folks and it is the discerning eye-to-eye contact can easily tell you who's fakin' it. You can, whenever possible, try to help those really in need, that's not charity, that's humanity, helping a fellow old man/woman with a cup of coffee and breakfast whenever you have the means, and also, not to ignore or shoo them away as if they are some kind of animals.
TFS
Hirak

HELLO
VERY NICE IMAGE GREAT PICTURSTION NICE REGUEARD.

Sad to see, I see this often in my country, the Philippines.. It's really sad.. There are children beggars on the streets in manila and much over the country, And All too often they give their funds to some "master" like you said, i have seen it with my own eyes. Although there are the real people, that really need help.. I have given help to them without hesitation, as i know there families etc.. (so i know where it goes) but it's those people sick people, that are simply lazy, stupid and have no conscience whatsoever that really stuff up the peoples lives, that really need help.

Nice picture, I really appreciate you voicing the truth behind all this. thanks for sharing! salamat po!

Saw today sohrab's critique featured on 1st page of TE : no time to read the note or the comment now, but you raise an interesting topic.
:) later...
Cath.

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