Photographers Note
HAPPY BIRTHDAY LEONARDO
In the United States April 15 marks the day when we must all submit our tax returns, and unless we are scheduled for a return of overpaid taxes, it is not a very happy day. But for me personally, this is a day for some celebration, it is Leonardo da Vincis 555th birthday. He was born in 1452 out of wedlock to a 15-year old impoverished chambermaid and a 24-year old well-heeled young man in the Tuscan town of Vinci. The mother and father eventually married, but not each other. Leonardo lived with his mother the first five years of his life, then with his fathers family during the next ten years. At fifteen, and without any formal schooling, he moved with his fathers family to Florence, where he was apprenticed to Andrea dell Verrocchio, a leading artist of the day, and joined, among other apprentices, Botticelli.
Through the ages there have been many geniuses we all know about them. In my own career in physics, Ive met approximately twenty Nobel Prize winners many of them are exceedingly clever, some even geniuses. Ultimately, however, they are ordinary geniuses. Their manifest gifts can usually be understood. Smart parents have smart children, but they must be supportive parents. Perhaps there are incrementally better genes, but there must be good dialogue around the dinner table, and an abundance of books in the house. We can study their works, understand whence the inspirations came, and even get the sense that if we had worked truly hard, and for a considerable time ourselves (and we were a little smarter than we are) we might have been able to do what they did.
Then there are the very rare transformative geniuses. These individuals define entire fields, but their mental processes remain mysterious. Their modus operandi does not follow the normal landscape of logic descending slopes, crossing valleys, and ascending slopes. They appear to jump from mountaintop to mountaintop, and there seems little hope of explaining where such minds come from. It is not the parents, not the environment, not the food they eat! One never has to argue about Who is the greatest practitioner in a field; the debate starts at Number Two or Number Three. William Shakespeare is a transformative genius in literature; so is Isaac Newton in the sciences and mathematics; in music there is Beethoven, and perhaps one or two others. Einstein, Time Magazines choice for the 20th centurys Man of the Century, might be the last transformative genius the world has seen.
When it comes to art, a meaningful argument about the greatest might start at Number Three Is it Rembrandt or Raphael, or perhaps Vermeer, van Gogh or Picasso? Van Gogh produced over 800 paintings in just nine years; Rembrandt produced hundreds of miraculous psychological portraits (he also painted himself 57 times). About Numbers One and Two, there are only two candidates. They are Leonardo and Michelangelo moreover they can be taken in either order! (Make Leonardo Number One on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays; and Michelangelo on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays.) As drivers they are that significant to the field. Michelangelo lived a very long lifetime of 89 years, and was productive to the very end, producing an immense body of magical works. But Leonardo, this supreme artist who lived 67 years, may have worked on only seventeen paintings, a dozen or so with greater certainty, half of that number with unchallenged provenance. But his works include the unrivaled Number One and the Number Two most famous paintings in the history of art (Ill let the reader guess). But in art it is not the numbers; as Goethe famously put it, The best is good enough. What was Leonardo doing the rest of the time?
Leonardo, called the universal genius, was doing science and technology inventing entire fields of science some of them not to be seen again for hundreds of years. Four thousand pages of his notes have survived, only a quarter of his original estimated output. And it is his notes that reveal the full measure of his genius. He was the finest artist doing science, and the finest scientist doing art. His anatomical drawings have never been equaled in beauty or insight. But more than anything else, Leonardo wanted to see human flight. He designed ornithopter wings, and an aerial screw, which in the 20th century inspired Igor Sikorsky in the invention of the helicopter. If birds can fly, Leonardo wrote, so should man be able to fly. In this photo that I shot virtually by reflex action early one morning, a pair of Canadian geese are seen flying southward, and 10,000 meters above them, is the trail of an intercontinental commercial jet coming from the East, from Europe the flight perhaps having originated at Leonardo da Vinci Airport in Rome.
In 2004 my book, Math and the Mona Lisa, was published by the Smithsonian Institution Press. It deals with the intersection of art, science and mathematics, in the same way that photography does. Much to my publishers (and my own) surprise, the book has been a best seller, printed eleven times in English, and translated into ten languages. As a financial success, it will never rival Dan Browns Da Vinci Code, but the book is about the real Leonardo artist/scientist/engineer a man for all seasons and for all centuries. Andrew Coppin, an unusually talented photographer living in Vancouver, commented about Leonardo and about my book in a note that accompanied his posting, Virgin in Street Art , and it is to Andrew that I dedicate this photograph. Moreover, Andrew is the grandson of the late Oxford University theoretical physicist, Sir Rudolf Peierls, a genius, albeit ordinary, who was my boss and hero at Oxford in the 1970s.
Leonardo died on May 2, 1519 in Amboise/Cloux, France, where his patron Fraçois I. had been his final, and very loyal patron. This explains in part why several of Leonardo's works, including the Mona Lisa, is in the Louvre.
Hand-held Nikon D-70, 18-70 lens. No filter, no tripod, no time to set up, and I am afraid it shows. Accordingly, I am submitting this photo not for the quality of the photograph, but for the fleeting scene and for the timing of Leonardos 555th birthday.
Ertan, salvator, john_c, stego, cimcim, Boots, AROBN54, suhan, Photo65Net, Sekhmet73, ALIRIZA, ahmetgedikli, singuanti, thea0211, zeca, bostankorkulugu, danos, rigoletto, Rosa_d_MonteLua, nivaldo, Cretense, papagolf21, kdialyna, amazon, JCG, anesugur, mursaloglu, Angshu, emjleclercq, chinchini, sabyasachi1212, missninja, meltemi, MLINES, giorgimer, Valerka has marked this note useful
Critiques | Translate
Ertan
(2985) 2007-04-14 8:54
Merhaba Bulent Abi
Mukemmel yakalamissin.Basarili kompozisyon ve basarili kadraj.Cok begendim.Ellerine saglik
Libyadan selamlar
Ertan
carper
(66132) 2007-04-14 12:21
I like the photo Bulent,
very artful and onbe with a lot of speed, and a note to be proud on, very good trekearth job here my friend, thanks for sharing and a very nice day.
gr. jaap
Yar
(795) 2007-04-14 13:16 [Comment]
cimcim
(3706) 2007-04-14 16:42
Tekrar Merhaba Değerli Hocam,
Fotoğrafınız kadar yazdığınız notta çok çok güzel ve öğretici.
Leonardo için seçtiğiniz fotoğrafta çok başarılı bir tercih olmuş.
Leonardo'nun 555. doğum gününü kutlamanız çok nazik bir düşünce. Sanırım yaşadığımız zamanda bilimadamı ve usta sanatçı Leonardo hakkında en fazla bilgiye sahip kişilerden birisiniz, Leonardo hakkında onca araştırma yapmış emek vermiş hatta muhteşem bir kitap yazmış biri olarak bugünü bizlere öğrettiğiniz ve büyük insan Leonardo hakkında çok özel bilgiler verdiğiniz için size yürekten teşekkür ederim. Aslında bu önemli yazınızda sadece Leonardo'ya dair değil pek çok bilim insanı ve büyük ustaya, sanatçıya ait önemli ve güzel bilgiler bulunuyor, bunların hepsini bizlerle paylaştığınız içinde size ayrıca teşekkür ederim. Mesela Van Gogh'un yalnızca 9 yılda 800'ü aşkın eser yaptığını sizden öğreniyorum ve Rembrandt hakkında bilmediğim şeyleri yine sizin yazınızdan öğrendim.
Leonardo hakkında yazdığınız birşey özellikle çok dikkatimi çekti "He was the finest artist doing science, and the finest scientist doing art" gerçekten çok doğru ve güzel söylemişsiniz.
Sizin gibi birini tanıdığım için kendimi çok şanslı hissediyorum ve biliyorumki sizden öğrenecek daha çooook şeyler var....
Tüm paylaşımlarınız için çoooook teşekkürler!
ayçn
Ne mutluki sizi tanıma fırsatı bulabildim :)
Boots
(475) 2007-04-14 20:39
Bulent,
I think Leonardo would be overjoyed to see this picture, 555 years after his birth. It sums up his dream so well, with man not just flying with the birds, but above them, in great numbers and with great speed, exploring our natural world and communicating instantly with each other (much as you did with your "Austrian Alps" photo). I think it is fitting, too, that we can't see the aircraft... like a magician hiding his tricks, the miracle of flight is most often not seen directly, but by the unique jetstream footprints left in the sky.
Your publisher should not have been surprised at the immense success of your book, Bulent. It is excellent, and all us TrekEarthers are lucky to have you writing such wonderful notes for your photographs. I would like to see a publication of your lithographs and sketches as well.
It is a great compliment to be dedicated to a photo commemerating the birthday of Leonardo, and I am very flattered.
Your friend,
Andrew.
stego
(22500) 2007-04-14 20:58
Hello Bülent,
A beautiful abstract compo accompanying the inspired reflections of the note. It is a touching homage to the anniversary of the Great Leonardo. I recognise the pleasant style and contagious enthusiasm that makes your book so interesting to read (yes, I finally finished it 8-).
I wonder if the 555 has any special meaning to numerologists beyond being what in Portuguese is called a capicua (group of numerals that, when read from left to right or vice-versa, result the same number).
Risking to expose myself as the ultimate distracted person, I must also thank you for remembering me that in Portugal the 15th April is also the last day for submitting the IRS forms, as I had forgotten it completely. Thanks to your note, I have just submitted everything now.
Cheers, José.
AROBN54
(10799) 2007-04-15 0:43
Oh, Bulent! That is a wonderful catch. The trees to give scale to the birds and that great jet stream above them. I love the way their wings are outstretched and stop actioned. I like the way this photo is divided and balanced, too. That is so very well done. Wonderful note and a perfect tribute to such a man. Kindest wishes,
Shelly
suhan
(3552) 2007-04-15 0:55 [Comment]
Photo65Net
(43106) 2007-04-15 7:16
Bonjour Bulent,
A great catch, and I like how created a story with it.
Title and note are great, and this overall job is amazing.
Regards,
JB.
john_c
(24635) 2007-04-15 11:33
Hi Bulent,
The photo is simple yet carries high impact. The apposition of the geese and the jet stream could also be seen as two entirely separate paradigms, occasionally intersecting. Your capture was surely at a decisive moment. A fascinating and informative note. Leonardo would have appreciated it. Cheers...later.
John
salvator
(18995) 2007-04-15 12:12
Hello Bulent Bey,
Very nice composition with the clear blue sky, a line made by a plane and two bird silouettes. Simple yet very striking. I cannot think of a better way to celebrate Leonardo's birthday.
I wish you an excellent weekend, best personal regards. Salvator.
ALIRIZA
(16197) 2007-04-15 16:55
Merhaba Bülent Abi,
Mavi gökyüzüne karşı kuşların silüetiyle nefis bir kompozisyon. Ellerine sağlık...
Selam ve saygılarımla...
Ali Rıza
ahmetgedikli
(22245) 2007-04-15 17:44
Merhaba Hocam,
Leonardo da Vinci'nin doğum gününü hatırlayıp bizimle paylaşan; onu en iyi bilen, anlayan ve hatta onun üzerine kitap hazırlayan bilim adamı ve sanatçıya yakışırdı. Çok teşekkürler.
Matematik ve Mona Lisa adlı kitabınızı büyük bir istek ve beğeniyle okudum. Açıkça şunu belirtmeliyimki son zamanlarda bilim ve sanat üzerine okuduğum en güzel ve en doyurucu eserdi. Leonardo da Vincinin bilim ve sanata yaptığı katkıları hayretle okudum. Gözlemleri, sanat ve bilim üzerine olan fikirleri, icatları şaşılacak derecede orijinal.
En çok beğendiğim sözlerinden biri de günümüz insanının içinde bulunduğu açmazı, tahammülsüzlüğü ifade eden; tek bir yıldıza bağlanıp kalmış kişi fikrini değiştirmez.
Kitabınızı okurken keşke olsaydı dediğim; İstanbulda Haliç üzerine yapmayı tasarladığı köprü projesiydi.
Kitapta sizin hayatınızla ilgili pek çok ayrıntıda mevcut. Özellikle küçük yaşlarda yapmış olduğunuz Mısır ziyareti, piramitleri yakından görmeniz matematik, fizik ve sanata karşı ilgi duymanızda etkili olmuş olabilir/ olabilir mi?
Selamlar, saygılar.
Ahmet
singuanti
(15240) 2007-04-15 21:10
Hello Bulent. Well first off thanks for the wonderfully detailed note. I found it most interesting. I think the photo is just fine and you mentioned you were worried about noise in my critique but I've squinted quite a bit and I don't see any. Usually when I have bad noise I use NoiseWare but I think you're fine here. Happy birthday Leo!
zeca
(20026) 2007-04-16 3:50
Hello Bulent!
Very nice composition, with minimum subjects, nice touch of graphism and alive silhouettes!
Regards,
Zeca
amazon
(10931) 2007-04-16 4:13
çok değerli profesör,
şu an satırlarınızı okurken sizinle aynı topraklarda doğmuş olmanın haklı gururunu bir kez daha yaşıyorum...sizinle ilk yazışmamız koç müzesini ziyaretimin (leonardo eserlerinin tanıtıldığı günlerin) hemen sonrasına denk gelmişti,bir kaç gün önce buralarda olduğunuzu öğrenmiş ve sizinle tanışma onurunu birkaç gün ile kaçırmıştım....buralara geldiğinizde bunu bilmek ve sizi tanımak isterim lütfedip vakit ayırabilirseniz,eminim bir çok te üyesi de bunu isteyecektir,
istanbul'dan sonsuz sevgi,saygı ve selamlarımla,
iffet
thea0211
(1355) 2007-04-16 4:48
"There is even more to me than you can ever capture; though I have spoken so intimately to you in my notebooks even as I have spoken to myself, I have kept final counsel only with the depths of my spirit and the inscrutable source that has made me possible; seek as you may, I will commune with you only so far; the rest is withheld, for it was my destiny to know things you will never know"
... what better way to evoke the great man but through what could have been his 'ultimate message through ages', as you quote in your book "Math and the Mona Lisa".
Happy birthday, Leonardo and thank you, Bulent - Leonardo would have been proud of your work!
dora
bostankorkulugu
(34198) 2007-04-16 5:05
yine mükemmel not ve notla müthiş örtüşen bir kare... harikasınız profesör...
selamlar
korkut:)
feather
(50560) 2007-04-16 6:12
Fascinating note Bulent. This, if anything does, underlines the fact that a note is crucial. My poor mind had missed the significance of the flight aspect of the image. Now it has been pointed out it is so obvious and fitting to the occasion of Leonardo's birthday. I love the fact the goose on the left seems to be calling to the other one.
On a technical note, refering to your earlier question about noise, I am convinced the quality problem is high compression.
Kath
jhm
(83786) 2007-04-16 7:20
Hello Dear Bulent,
I learn always out of your excellent note, this is almost a encyclopedia.
The two black silhouettes of the geese against the steel blue sky make this picture attractive, also the white condens line to the sky is a interruption of the level.
Thanks for sharing.
Have a nice day, think not to your treasury letter, poor people are very happy because they are carefree (smile)
John.
danos
(33730) 2007-04-16 13:07
Merhaba Bulent,
nice your oblation to the 555th birthday of Leonardo.The composition with the birds and aeroplane which flies from behind them has a lot of dynamics.Very infornative your note.
Best regards,Danos
rigoletto
(27082) 2007-04-16 15:29
Merhaba Dear Professor,
A truely meaningful photo for the 555th birthday of one of the greatest geniuses ever lived. Science and arts combined have always been the true and exact way of turning the dreams into reality and this has always been for the benefit of mankind. Leonardo was one of those great ones, who was so gifted to enlighten our long and branched road leading to enlightment. It is so kind of you to make all of us remember him. Thank you. By the way, i hereby reply to your critique to me regarding my PhD studies. I prefer to write it in Turkish if you don't mind:
Polimer konulu doktora çalışmaları henüz başında diyebilirim. Konu başlığı "Surface and fatigue characteristics of wood fiber-polypropylene composites" olarak belirlendi. Şu an için malzeme karakterizasyonu ve formülasyon belirleme aşamasındayız. Daha sonra co-rotating twin screw extruder içindeki Non-Newtonian kompozit akışı için viskozite modellemesi gerçekleştireceğiz ve kalıptaki yüzey sürtünmesini azaltmaya çalışacağız. Yüzeydeki slip flow etkisini azaltacak kimyasalların mekanik dayanıma olan etkisini ise yorulma ölçümleri gösterecek. Hedef tarih 2009.
Warm regards form Istanbul,
Deniz
Rosa_d_MonteLua
(1504) 2007-04-16 19:40
Hi Bulent!
Nice composition with a very interesting grafism.
The silhouettes are perfect and the focus it's well done, as we can see by the blur observed on the branches at the right.
Very interesting!
TFS and best regards,
Rosa
nivaldo
(13528) 2007-04-16 23:58 [Comment]
papagolf21
(57015) 2007-04-17 3:33
Cher Ami Bulent,
Je comprends mieux votre critique à propos de la pomme ! ;o)
J'ai eu l'occasion de lire la vie de Léonard de Vinci (excellente lecture, qui apprend beaucoup sur ce génie). Cette photo est un excellent hommage à ce grand homme. J'avoue à ma grande honte ne pas avoir eu connaissance de votre livre, il va falloir que je me renseigne ; je suis toujours avide d'apprendre.
Votre note est excellente et accompagne à merveille cette prise de vue.
Amitiés sincères.
Philippe
kdialyna
(3106) 2007-04-17 3:47
Good morning dear friend.
Very nice from you the offer for the birthday of the person that contributed in the development of the humans.
I am sure that Leonardo would have observed a lot of times the flying of birds, dreaming the machine that would help the humans to fly .
So, I think your photo would have made him very happy.
My best regards
Kostas
Cretense
(57564) 2007-04-17 6:20
Hi Bulent!
Excellent title and amazing note for this wonderful photo. It takes a real artist to "see" and capture this beautiful moment. Congratulations, my dear friend!
Warm regards,
Hercules
molla
(6935) 2007-04-17 9:22
What a birthday gift! i Wonder what he thinks where ever his are about thos lined clouds in the sky that actually are a flying machine going at the speed if sound.
I think it´s good seen to get both the (swans?) and the areoplane in the same image.
Anders In Gnesta
JCG
(25875) 2007-04-17 10:37
Hi Bülent,
A beautiful homage to this man well in advance over his time. It was and it is still an attractive character. Thank you for this very instructive summary. It will be needed that I find your book in French language for more convenience, that interests me more and more. The photograph supplements one of its obsessions marvelously, the flight of the man, and without his work one would have arrived there ? Thank you Bülent and happy birthday with Léonard.
With my all friendships from Versailles where we have a superb weather.
Jean-Charles
anesugur
(17114) 2007-04-17 17:11
Saygıdeğer hocam,
Pek çok arkadaşın da yazdığı gibi bu sitenin bizim için en önemli faydalarından birisi sizin gibi değerli bir insanı tanımış olmamız.
Ülkemizi bir bilim adamı olarak yurtdışında temsil ediyor olmanız, üstelik bir dahi hakkında kitaplar yazabilen bir otör olmanız sizi tanıma mutluluğumu biraz daha arttırıyor.
Selam ve saygılar sunarım. Uğur
mursaloglu
(5284) 2007-04-17 20:42
Dear bulent bey
Isa really stunning picture with great impact and mood. Has a great meaning and great theme. This is a photo art. Let say just with a frame many thoughts that cover a lot of pages or books. My best regards ihsan
Angshu
(34243) 2007-04-18 7:37
Hello Professor "A"
I read & re-read your note...fascinating as always! Your 'impromptu' photograph couldn't be more apt about the art & science of flight...and what more fascinating than show two (or three) flying objects so contrasting, yet so similar. One can almost hear the goose on the left 'chattering' to its companion as the jet stream sizzles above.
With warm Regards
Angshuman "B"
sothy81
(8540) 2007-04-18 15:34
Hi Bulent, this is a very nice photo. Seems like these 2 birds are playing with the line. A couple like picture having fun in the sky. A momentous shot. And it is simple good. Sothy
emjleclercq
(14632) 2007-04-18 17:01
Very good note about your favorite genius, and an interesting illustration about the dream of flying, not only of Leonardo but of some many people before and after him, either mythical (Dedalus and his son), party-mythical (Cyrano de Bergerac) and just real men. The birds seems to be geese in my opinion, and tere is this unidetified jet in the background: the two way of flying, the natural one and the huma one... Of course, the intrinsic quality of the picture could be criticized, but illustrating a dream provides some freedom of interpretation and realisation.
All the best,
Emmanuel
jaywalker
(12415) 2007-04-20 14:52
Hi Bulent, The silhouettes of these two geese in flight is excellent & with the vapour trail of the plane above adds extra interest & depth, the shot is very well composed & superbly timed, you have caught the two in a nice area of the shot in relation to the trail, kind regards Wilson.
Standa
(1861) 2007-04-20 18:00
Hi Bulent,
first I have to say that I don´t like planes tracks on the sky at all. Always when I have opportunity to take a photo with good light and I finde track there I don´t take it.
But here I respect for a quick idea. Don´t be afraid to show it, together with very informativ note you add nice gift to Leonardos birthday.
Have a nice weekend,
Stanislav
sabyasachi1212
(19546) 2007-04-21 4:26
Helo Professor,
Never mind the quality, its suitable for the occasion and your note is a gem. Ofcourse you are an authority on this.
TFS
With Greetings from India
Sabyasachi
missninja
(495) 2007-04-28 1:17
Hello Bulent!
Great composition, the two birds in the foreground and the line made by a plane in the background. Beside old books flying (especially in biplanes) is my passion and although it´s something ordinary today we really can thank Leonardo and all the other innovators to make this possible.
Warm regards,
Nina
imago_lux
(247) 2007-05-10 15:13
This is a great image of poetry. If Leonardo was alive and he can saw it, certainly he should be very happy. The photo shows the power of contrasts: the old and the new, the nature and the industry, the power and the poetry, and so on.
Congratulations, Bulent
Jack Bramble
MLINES
(11064) 2007-05-11 17:41
Hi Bulent. One thing very noticable in USA and Europe for southern visitors is the incredible no of jet trails in the skies, something we have far fewer down here. The composition of the birds infromnt of this vapour trail, along with the notes all comes together well. Good job. Murray.
meltemi
(9746) 2007-05-23 14:22
Hello Bulent,
I think that without that title the attention of the viewer was concentred so much on the couple of birds... I think you did a great work merging a beautiful picture with a beautiful and very interesting presentation using the title to link them.
Kind Regards.
Stella
giorgimer
(21676) 2007-05-24 7:49
Hi Bulent,
excellent idea and wonderful note.
I like the birds' silhouettes and the image composition.
Well done!
Giorgio
cak
(3924) 2007-05-30 21:46 [Comment]
banyanman
(7739) 2007-09-17 8:11
A fleeting scene, maybe, and perhaps not your greatest post as far as technical quality, Bulent, but it tells an interesting story . . . birds in flight and the trail of a modern jetliner high in the sky behind. The bird on the left seems to be talking to its companion in flight (perhaps remarking "Man is crazy thinking he will ever be able to fly!)
A very fitting tribute to Leonardo da Vinci on his 555th birthday. Cheers . . . David
Valerka
(8159) 2008-01-24 2:12
Hi,Master,
I like the idea of this shot very much.
And I guess, Leonardo's spirit would be pleased to have such a good supporter in your shots:)
I like the overall composition, though, honestly, there's something not as strong and powerful as in your other shots but I can't explain it.
But the parallel is fine!
TFS
Valerka:)
Photo Information
-
Copyright: Bulent Atalay (batalay)
(21416) - Genre: Places
- Medium: Color
- Date Taken: 2007-03-29
- Categories: Nature
- Camera: Nikon D-70
- Photo Version: Original Version
- Date Submitted: 2007-04-14 8:51
Discussions
- To banyanman: Leonardo's Dream (1)
by batalay, last updated 09-17 12:40 - To imago_lux: Leonardo's Dream (1)
by batalay, last updated 05-10 15:29 - To JCG: Leonardo's Dream (1)
by batalay, last updated 04-18 00:00 - To mursaloglu: Leonardo'nun yas günü... (1)
by batalay, last updated 04-17 23:42 - To Rosa_d_MonteLua: Leonardo (1)
by batalay, last updated 04-17 23:39 - To anesugur: Leonardo's Dream (1)
by batalay, last updated 04-17 23:34 - To stego: Leonardo's Dream (1)
by batalay, last updated 04-16 19:09 - To amazon: Leonardo's Dream (1)
by batalay, last updated 04-16 18:43 - To feather: Leonardo's Dream (1)
by batalay, last updated 04-16 18:16 - To ahmetgedikli: Matematik ve Mona Lisa (1)
by ahmetgedikli, last updated 04-16 14:57 - To thea0211: Leonardo at 555... (1)
by batalay, last updated 04-16 05:02 - To cimcim: Leonardo'nun yas günü... (1)
by batalay, last updated 04-15 23:32 - To ahmetgedikli: Leonardo (1)
by batalay, last updated 04-15 18:45








