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  #11  
Old 12-01-2004, 12:27 PM
Rhiannon Rhiannon is offline
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Default Re: cropped heads

I was amazed about how amatuer like Parr's photos were! A lot of people here on TE are way better (IMHO) :)

My personal opinion is to crop out a bit from the head, and I often prefer a off centered position. And for Gods sake, no flash!!!
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2004, 02:06 PM
Luko Luko is offline
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Default Re: cropped heads

I was amazed about how amatuer like Parr's photos were! A lot of people here on TE are way better (IMHO)

I wouldn't really say that Frida...

At some time, some people said that Picasso paintings showed no more artistic skills than kids' drawings, (won't even talk about Pollock, a toddler's level painter ahhaha...) they just couldn't understand that a painting or any image shouldn't be assessed by their proximity to reality or known things but mostly by the feeling they convey and the way the painter carries these feelings. See how it has evolved now.

In fact, behind the "amateur" feel there's a lot of technique and control, some photo skills that I think on my part there are not more than 2 or 3, maybe 5 photographers down in TE can achieve something like that. Perhaps you can spot some of these attempts (some IMHO convincing others not) in Maciek's gallery.
Parr's favorite topic is about mass tourism and tackyness : you may not like what Parr's trying to convey but in the other way it's hard not to admit that he missed the aim of bringing feelings into photography.. and that was precisely his point.

Viewed from my eyes, the problem in TE is that it's biased in a way : there's a general agreement that tends to favor similar kinds of shots, like full face close portraits (possibly kids) or clean postcardlike landscapes... which IMHO is of low artistic value(but again it's my personal feeling, though I know members who also share(d) that point...). Hence it leaves very little place for more original points of views and on the contrary encourages some gifted photographers on a middle of road way.

A long way from the cropped heads topics...

Cheers
L.
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2004, 02:35 PM
Darren Darren is offline
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Default Re: cropped heads

And for Gods sake, no flash!!!

Not so sure that rules should be so concrete. I can't remember the photographer, but I saw a Nat Geo special on one of the real in demand wildlife photographers right now. He is well known for breaking one of the wildlife rules: No flash other than to put catchlights in the eyes. He often shoots at night, with bursts of flash that give an almost surreal color to his photos. They work, because they are different and exciting. The real truth is, a beautifully composed and exposed shot of an elephant taken during the golden hour has been done countless times. No matter what you do, you can't bring much anything new to the table if you follow the same old rules. His shots (damn, I wish I could remember his name) were bright, alive and different. Breaking the rules worked for him (must have, he is a Nat Geo photographer after all).

I think an important thing to remember is that breaking the rules can lead to some truly awful photos, and will make it more difficult to capture a great photo, when things really click, that is when you can create something more memorable.

I think as another example, one of the things that makes Alex Webb's photos so appealing is that there might be a head popping up from the least expected spot. Surely there are rules against such things, but it works anyways, because we have not been inundated with that style.
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  #14  
Old 12-01-2004, 03:23 PM
Rhiannon Rhiannon is offline
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Default Re: cropped heads

To both Luko and Darren:

I was not very serious, I know Parr is a famous photographer, and skilled, of course.
But to my personal taste I didn't like his photos a bit.
Except for the technique which I didn't like, I found no heart or feeling in his shots. (Or at least not as much as I wanted)

I know we all are quiet conservative here on TE, beautiful, simple landscapes and asian kids are what gets high ratings. But at the same time, I think that is what is most appealing to most people's eyes.

Photography is like music or all other art, sculptures and paintings, the beauty is in the eye och the beholder, and that is a good thing that we all have different taste.

Regarding the flash, yes, sometimes flash can be useful, and even give a nive effect, but most of the time I think it makes the picture flat and a bit boring. But that is also a matter of personal taste, as everything else.

This is a very interesting matter, and I think it is fun to read everybodies different opinions.

I think we all need to dare to try to experiment a little. Maybe artwork will come through that. Like with that National Geographic photographer you mentioned, Darren.

The first thin I have to do is try to take a portrait, I am a coward :) The you can help me with the cropping.

See you around guys. All the best.
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  #15  
Old 12-01-2004, 05:44 PM
Homerhomer Homerhomer is offline
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Default Re: cropped heads

Luko wrote:
"Viewed from my eyes, the problem in TE is that it's biased in a way : there's a general agreement that tends to favor similar kinds of shots, like full face close portraits (possibly kids) or clean postcardlike landscapes... which IMHO is of low artistic value(but again it's my personal feeling, though I know members who also share(d) that point...). Hence it leaves very little place for more original points of views and on the contrary encourages some gifted photographers on a middle of road way."

While I agree this to be truth, I don't think it's a problem. The fact is that most of us are trying to squeeze in few photos in between work, kids homework and cousins wedding, we do it because we simply like it not because we are really good at it, and while some of us will try our best to get better and better, very few have a talent and creativity to stand out above the crowd like some of the names that have been mentioned. I think this can be applied to any hobby, how many poeple love football but the best they can do is play in a house league?
Peter
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  #16  
Old 12-01-2004, 06:35 PM
Luko Luko is offline
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Default Re: cropped heads

I do not wish to start the discussion over again in this thread. However I think this was not exactly my point, I'm not saying that everybody should be good at making images, of course we do what we can...
I'm simply saying that some gifted photographers in TE are sometimes wasting their style in order to conform to TE's general doxa and appreciation grid which sometimes come from pavlovian critics ("oooh cute face" though TE isn't a fashion parlor, we aren't there to appreciate the face of the people but more the way the photo is shot and the content of it).
That means in a way these talented photographers are binding their "art" or "creativity" call it what you want to a general taste. More than that, some are even anticipating general taste, and as anticipations are always an average, this is even more a compromise than you would imagine...

But who am I to say they're loosing their own sake and to be critical against general taste?

Firstly, it happens that one of the fundamentals of Nature we know since Darwin is that diversity will ALWAYS be the factor of success... I now seldom post myself if I'm still there looking at TE, it's mainly because I want my share of astonishment everyday and hence will try to give a bonus to whom may go beyond my surprise level. Hence, I'm sometimes disappointed when a photographer I like prefers to show something he's sure will be agreed upon rather than a more surprising, more personal but risky effort.

Secondly, I think it's the role of the more "artistic" photographers in TE to educate the eyes of the readers or less experimented photographers rather than the opposite, ie majority influencing the photographer choice. This might be very unfair but I barely know about masterpieces coming from a poll.

When it comes down to putting this into acts I only have two things to say :

1- To photographers, shoot and post what YOU like and not what OTHERS are expected to like.

2- To criticers, be honest and say what YOU like, not what OTHERS like. If you dont have anything special to say, well... simply don't say anything and keep your saliva for another coment.
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  #17  
Old 12-01-2004, 07:02 PM
Homerhomer Homerhomer is offline
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Default Re: cropped heads

Ok I see your point, and agree with every word you said.
Peter
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  #18  
Old 12-01-2004, 07:06 PM
Darren Darren is offline
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Default Re: cropped heads

You know what pisses me off about you Luko? The fact that although your first language is not English, you seem to use it better than me. You do awfully well with the language, plus you seem to have a general knowledge of everything. In this post, you cover evolutionary biology, learning theory (both Pavlovian and Skinnerian), sociology, in addition to photography and art. There was probably more, but they flew over my head.

Other than that, I agree with pretty much everything you say, even though I know I am guilty of often posting something that is safe rather than risky or different.

Another good post.
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  #19  
Old 12-01-2004, 10:54 PM
sohrab sohrab is offline
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Default mike nichols????????????????????????????/

hi darren ,
are you talking about michael nichols

he's my favourite wildlife photographer
he not only uses very strong flashes , but also some really strong strobes.
yes he shoots alot ot night and you're right he gests surreal photographs.
the reason why im guessing you're talking about him is because of one of his very famous photographs in which he's used a flash on an elephant and there's a beautiful violet

he's perhaps best known for his photograph of jane goodall and jou jou
take care :)
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  #20  
Old 12-01-2004, 11:11 PM
sohrab sohrab is offline
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Default to frida: martin parr

hi frida
maciej only showed one of parr's galleries.
if you look at other's such as this one maybe you won't feel that people on TE are better than him :)

im sending the above link in particular because i feel that most people associate magnum with mostly black and white photography.

also phaidon press has published his works just an example . i dont really think phaidon press will publish a crappy photographer's works :)

i dont like using the flash either, the reason being... i'm not really good at it. but if used properly, then the results can be out of the world. one very famous example is david alan harvey

personally i find him the best exponent of flash. he uses warming gel with his flash and gets some of the most amazing colours only because of the flash. i think ive already sent you a link to a photograph of a horse taken by him, but you can see hi other galleries here if you havent already seen them:) i'm pretty sure you'll like them.

also ive written another message to darren giving him the link to the works of a wildlife photographer called michael nichols. he uses the flash a lot as well and gets some really amazing images. you should have a look at it. he's my favourite wildlife photographer
take care :)
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