Forums


Go Back   The TrekEarth Forums > TrekEarth Forum Home > General

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-30-2004, 08:01 PM
sengir sengir is offline
TE Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 397
Default unuseful critrique

Hey!
I want to raise the question of marking critiques as "unuseful" - what is the point of this feature? I think only to give some people the revenge tool. I just got 15 unuseful in the last hour, without any comment, I really don't know why (I often try to write something more than typical "great shot", and when I see some problems with pictures I write it. Ok, someone may not like being critisized, but does it make my comment "unuseful"? ).
And I cannot even check wich of my comments are so unuseful (so that I can improve), not to mention checking who made them.
I think that "reply" tool is just enough for reacting on unwanted critique - if someone doesn't agree, he may say his own mind!
If this doesn't change, I will stop making any comments at all, if all I can get in response is such acting of God knows who.
Or at least let's change the name of this rating to "unpositive" - it will better reflect current usage!
A little bit annoyed,
Antoni
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-30-2004, 08:19 PM
BobTrips BobTrips is offline
TE Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 817
Default Re: unuseful critique

I agree that the "Unuseful" is not an appropriate label. It does not contain useful information. I'd rather see a "I don't agree and here's why" option. Perhaps switch the Unuseful to Disagree and require a bit of text to explain why - no text=no recording.

But - I received a couple of your critiques. And I looked at some of the other critiques that you've written. Now I don't know if this is the reason that you've received the 'Un's but it seems that you don't say enough to be potentially useful to the photographer.

With my shots you had positive things to say and made a general comment about 'quality'. But you don't tell me how the quality could be better. It's hard to improve without knowing (at least 'in your opinion') could be improved. I've seen at least one post where you suggest more post-processing but you don't say what type of processing.

Now I don't know if the Uns are vindictive or indicating a desire for more specifics. (I didn't give you an Un - at least you said more than "pretty picture".) But try being more specific and see if the Un-rate decreases.



AND - some people really don't want to hear anything bad. Others of us want our worked viewed with a constructively critical eye. Sure would be nice if Adam could find time to set up Groups.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-30-2004, 09:56 PM
sengir sengir is offline
TE Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 397
Default Re: unuseful critique

> With my shots you had positive things to say and made a general comment about 'quality'. But you don't tell me
> how the quality could be better. It's hard to improve without knowing (at least 'in your opinion') could be
> improved. I've seen at least one post where you suggest more post-processing but you don't say what type of
> processing.
well, in Your case (finally found the picture) I meant mainly the sharpness. In general under term quality I mean technical quality, and under processing I mean general post-processing of picture that need to be applied after scanning / shooting with digital, and that contains sharpening, level / curves adjustment, saturation and so on.
I agree that sometimes it may sound a little bit general, but it would be writing the same thing in every case;
if you shoot on film, try scanning negatives/slides, as it often brings much better results than scanning prints (they often become too soft).

And I really liked Your shot, and meant only that if technical quality (sharpness, a little bit colours) was better, that would be truly outstanding picture - so go and try to improve it a little bit and repost it

And my outrage was not only about getting unuseful, but about getting 15 of them at the same time!! And the rate of unusefuls decrease when I don't give any critic comments (only 'very good'), and increases when I try to be more specific. It's very hard also to get any positive information from "unuseful comments" rating, as I cannon even see which of my comments were marked useful, and which unuseful (I know only that 75 were useful and 30 not. This morning it was 75 and 14!!).

To Adam: can you at least show which of my comments were marked useful and which unuseful? And explain what does "unuseful" critique means? Because if that only means "that it doesn't bring something very new and very, very specific" than about 95% of comments here come under this definition!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-31-2004, 12:15 AM
adam adam is offline
TE Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,658
Default Re: unuseful critique

The original point of 'unuseful's were to discourage 'nice shot' critiques. Since these are no longer permitted, there's not much point to them anymore. I will be removing all 'unuseful' ratings shortly, and it will no longer be possible to give them either.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-31-2004, 12:42 AM
jrj jrj is offline
TE Expert
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,501
Default Re: unuseful critique

Thank's Adam

I have a full respect of anyone who don't like my critics - but I really would have liked to know why, as I guess those sharp penned members rating 'unusful' have ambitions over what I could accomplice when trying to make a critic of their pixes. At the same time as I have been writing some 3.000 critics it is both time consuming and difficult as the variation of words to be used in a second language is, unfortunately, very limited. And I am afraid that writing in Norwegian would have been even more unuseful for many.

I raised the question some time ago - why this anonymous thing? By taking it out I offer you this critic:
WELL DONE ADAM!

Jack
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-31-2004, 01:19 AM
sengir sengir is offline
TE Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 397
Default Re: unuseful critique

great. They now work completely opposite than they were designed to;).
But I would also warn You against administratively discouraging short critiques, as it may kill this service - look what has happend with photosig.com - now if you get there 2 critiques you should feel lucky.
And it's not always possible to write something 'clever'. Sometimes picture is just perfect, and you would like to praise it.
Thanks for quick reaction, I really appreciate your great work. I only hope that you will not run out of this enthiusiasm too soon ;).
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-31-2004, 05:43 AM
adam adam is offline
TE Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,658
Default Re: unuseful critique

"I would also warn You against administratively discouraging short critiques, as it may kill this service"

General critques such as 'nice shot' have not been permitted for many months now and it seems fine to me.

"it's not always possible to write something 'clever'"

It doesn't have to be clever, it only has to explain why a photo is good or not. This is explained in #12 of the tos.

"Sometimes picture is just perfect, and you would like to praise it."

That's fine, but it should include specifc reasons as to why it's perfect.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-31-2004, 06:06 AM
BobTrips BobTrips is offline
TE Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 817
Default Useful critique...

"And I really liked Your shot, and meant only that if technical quality (sharpness, a little bit colours) was better, that would be truly outstanding picture - so go and try to improve it a little bit and repost it."

Ah! Now the critique becomes useful. I now know that what you think would improve the photo is more sharpening. But I'm left wondering what "a little bit colours" means. Is there a color cast? Do you see a need for more saturation? Or something else?

Not picking on you. Just pointing out that critiques can only be useful if they contain enough information for the photographer to understand your message. Now the photographer doesn't have to agree with you, but the opportunity to see one's work through the eyes of another is extremely valuable.


(And, again, I'm not the source of any of your 'Un's. Just someone who wanted to better understand your opinion.)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-31-2004, 09:00 AM
adam adam is offline
TE Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,658
Default Re: unuseful critique

OK, this is now (finally) done. No more 'not useful's.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-31-2004, 03:02 PM
joseelias joseelias is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 871
Default Re: unuseful critique

Great Adam!

For sometime now I've been discussing the "usefulness of not-useful". All the reasons have been largely explained in this and previous posts so I won't add anything else. Just to say great.

And if someone don't find a critique useful or that it lacks information over what was said it can allways mail the members to get further explanations.
Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:31 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.


explore TREKEARTH