System to report insulting behaviour

[Bayleaf]

Has anyone ever felt the need for a method of reporting TE members for being insulting or abusive? Just as with the "Report Violation" feature for photos, couldn't we have "Report Abusive Member"? If the person gets reported by more than a certain number of members they get told to stop. If they continue to get reported, they get kicked out of the community. I.e. their membership cancelled and all their photos deleted. Obviously this system could be abused too, so the person with the complaint would need to provide specific examples.

I'm not talking about giving negative critiques either. We all know that this is part of the learning process and very, very necessary. I'm talking the people that cannot control their emotions, and based solely on their own opinion lay into the "offending party" personally in an abusive manner, with much more ferocity than necessary.

I personally am getting tired of seeing this.
Am I the only one? If not, maybe Adam could think about this too.

P.S. I'm not saying this because I personally have been abused, so no need to speed off to look at the critiques I've received. I'm just sick of seeing other people being personally insulted and feeling unable to do anything about it.

[thien]

I don't think we need such a system yet. This might leads to other kinds of censorships which I find is not require at this stage of T.E.. I'd like to think that T.E. is a big happy family. And as a family, we might from time to time have some quarrels but also as a family, we can also gently tell each other if we find that we are straying too far.

[Keitht]

I haven't seen any abusive posts so far and hopefully never will. Some critiques may be hard hitting, but I would expect such critiques to contain useful advice as well.

There is obviously a world of difference between saying that a picture is **** with no further comment, and saying that there are these problems and these possible solutions.

If you are saying that people are getting abusive e-mails that is an entirely different matter and in that situation maybe Adam can intervene in some way. What we mustn't lose sight of is that this site is maintained by Adam in his own time, unpaid.

[Bayleaf]

I am not talking about email. As I said, I personally haven't received comments like this.

I am talking about telling someone that their photo is **** which is a critique and the point of TE, even if better words might be better chosen. But then going on to tell the person that posted the photo that they are stupid. This to me is a plain insult.

Take a look at item 8 in the TE Terms of Service:
Profanity, insults, and rude comments are not permitted on TrekEarth.

Maybe people don't care if they get insulted. I might be fine with it too if it happened to me. But I feel that certain postings I've seen might be harsh enough to scare off some members. And that would be a great shame.

[mdchachi]

I haven't seen the kinds of critiques you are referring to but I agree that it would be a good idea to have a Contact section in the About section of the site telling people how to send comments, ask questions, report abuses, report bugs, etc. If I were Adam, I'd create a form for doing this since posting email addresses will only give him a lot of spam to sift through.

[Bayleaf]

OK. So I can see that I am just more sensitive to words than most.

I agree that it might be a good idea to have a form for reporting stuff that gets sent straight to Adam rather than having to post in a forum. This might result in a lot more work for Adam though, as people might feel it easier to do so. As it seems I'm being over sensitive here, I'm just going to ignore the insulting comments I'm seeing for now.

[adam]

OK, I'm going to create a [Report Violation] link which will be displayed next to each critique. I would like it to be used only in extreme situations for time constraint reasons.

[ronners]

In an open environment like this you're bound to get all kinds of participants, but just because you don't agree with some of their views - and that's all they are, their views - shouldn't be an excuse to castigate them. Rather than punish in this instance I simply choose to ignore.

Life is too short to involve oneself with the failings of another in a setting such as this. I don't believe abuse is necessarily prevalent here, if it we're that would be another matter.

I for one post shots that I like. Critiques are useful in many instances, but a bad one has never stopped me liking a particular shot, adn in fact I disagree with many critiques. I view this site as an opportunity to share the photos I like with others, if not everyone likes them then I can accept that.

Let's not get too hung up about this.

Ron.

[Mrcurtain]

Next to each forum message would probably be a good idea too.

-Adam (#2)

[Bayleaf]

Ronners,
I'm not talking about harsh critiques. My first post hear clearly states that. I'm talking about "This photo is **** and you are brainless tw*t" type of critique and forum posting.

Firstly, most educated people should be able to choose better words to describe a photo that does not live up to <i>their personal</i> expecations. I agree that some photos posted here might well have been the result of an infinite number of monkeys with and infinite number of cameras, but to the person who has taken the trouble to upload the shot, because after all <i>they</i> think it's good, telling them so in an insulting manner is counter-productive. Of course one should tell them one's opinion, but not in an insulting manner.

The more inacceptable thing in my mind is then moving on from insulting the shot, to insulting the person themself. This just shows a complete lack of self-control. This would not be accepted in most business situations, so why should it be acceptable in what I like to think is a civil community of people with a common interest in photography, and improving their skills at it?

As I've said, maybe I'm being too sensitive, and maybe if it happens to me at some point, I'll be able to shrug it off too. But I do think we should have the ability to ask the offending parties to show a little more self constraint. And if they don't take further action.

Martin.

[Motrem]

Voici le commentaire d'une personne sur ma critique qui ne le regardait même pas :
its a very nice shot,i wonder how would it look if you croped a part of the window to show the leg (if you got it in the shot).
in any case i like it like all your work.
hope you dont mind newbies comments Cedar.
En réponse à ce monsieur. Même si je suis une néophyte, je n'aime pas être traitée de la sorte. J'ai droit à mes opinions et si j'erre dans un commentaire, pourquoi alimenter une chicane inutile.
J'aime la sagesse de certains critiques qui se mêlent de leurs affaires.
Motrem

[Motrem]

Monsieur "Forlife",
Je m'excuse de mon erreur, ne parlant pas anglais j'ai fait traduire votre texte par un logiciel et vous et moi pouvons lui en attribuer la faute maintenant. Nous continuons notre chemin dans TE avec joie et il me fera toujours plaisir de vous lire, en essayant de traduire mieux.
Merci de m'avoir répondu.
Sir " Forlife ",
I apologize for my error, not speaking English, I made translate your text by a software and you and I let us can attribute him the fault now. We continue our road in TE with enjoyment and it will always please me to read to you, by trying to translate better.
Thank have answered me.
Motrem

[mdchachi]

> OK. So I can see that I am just more sensitive to words than most.

Not necessarily. Just that I haven't seen the kinds of critiques you are referring to. Probably you read more of the critiques than I do. Definitely calling somebody names or attacking them personally violates the TOS.

[adam]

There is now a [violation] link next to every critique. Please use this in extreme circumstances only. This will email me a message with the appropriate information and I will attempt to come up with a reasonable compromise. Thanks.

[SirWilliam]

Hi bayleaf,
I have never seen the type of critique here as you described:
"Ronners,
I'm not talking about harsh critiques. My first post hear clearly states that. I'm talking about "This photo is **** and you are brainless tw*t" type of critique and forum posting."

Plz give some exampels here, since your sick of it, you could provide us with several of them. So we can see how big this problem is.

[greg]

I don't know about anyone else, but I really don't like those blue [violation] links all over the critiques: it gives the site an unpleasant character. Seems to me that there are so extremely few cases where it might be needed - TrekEarth's a pretty friendly place - that such a feature would better be hidden away somewhere out of sight. Have a form to fill with the complaint somewhere around the TOS document for those who really need it.

[adam]

"Have a form to fill with the complaint somewhere around the TOS document for those who really need it."

I could easily do this instead. What do others think?

[sita4ram]

Well, I havent noticed nor posted (I hope) an insulting critique.
and since not many ppl here have seen such, it seems like more of a theoretical argument... I mean I dont even think we need the violation link. after all, if someone is too harsh on you, just write them back asking what seems to be the problem.

I think making adam into a 'watch dog' (no offence, adam), will just make the site less fun and pleasant. its almost like what happens in the media, where bad stuff get headlines, and good stuff usually gets passed by.
maybe its the influence of my 8 months in toronto, but I feel such discussions should even be avoided as much as possible (as well as the ones about wheather flower images are allowed etc). I mean just move on and concentrate on the good parts.

[PiotrS]

"Have a form to fill with the complaint somewhere around the TOS document for those who really need it."

I would agree with it simply from the point of view of keeping the site tidy. We have had a lot of new features implemented recently (with great thanks to Adam of course), but we might end up getting swamped by options!

I think (and hope) that such violations will occur extremely rarely, therefore a separate form for such occasions is more appropriate then making it an option for all crits.

And besides, seeing "Violation" all over the place must have an effect on the subconscious... :)

[Edwin]

I totally agree with Greg that currently the reoccureence of the blue violation link next to every critique feels out of place. Sort of over-kill IMHO. I like the idea though to be able to fill in such form in case necessary. Not that I am longing forward to fill in one ;)

[Guto]

I also think we don't need this blue violation link at all critiques. It's too much for something that rarely (if ever) happens. I agree with sita4ram: we can just write the person to ask what's the problem before report what seems to be a "violation". And, as said above, if there's also a link to report violations (I haven't look for it) I think this should be enough.

[mdchachi]

I vote for removing the links and putting a complaint form somewhere "in the back."

[Keitht]

I agree with the other recent posts, the violation link beside each crit is off putting. First time I saw it against one of my crits I thought somebody had complained. I appreciate that Adam was responding to a user request, but is a seperate link really necessary? Surely insulting behaviour can be covered by the same link as "Report Violation". Even rename it as "Report Board Violation" if needs be.
I have been on other boards where personal attacks seem to have become the norm rather than the exception and would hate to see this one go the same way. There is no evidence of that to date - thank goodness. One or two are chucking the toys out of the pram, but maybe if we give them their toys back and tuck them in nicely things will calm down again. :)
This is a damn good site, let's not spoil it - please !!!

[BobTrips]

How about an even 'kinder and gentler' solution?

Just a link entitled "Hey Adam..."

[adam]

"I dont even think we need the violation link."

It has been removed based on all the feedback I have received. Thanks.